The Recording, Clip by Clip

where new business is at, so the floor is open to the delegates to bring new business from the congregations. And in the back there. Thank you. I give you with God's peace. This is Briar Siljander from the Coastal California Congregation. And I come in love and in prayer.

The Coastal California congregation asked the LLC two weeks ago at the requested deadline before to include three items to the new business agenda. The LLC board acknowledged this but said no, they're not gonna include these items on the agenda because the board disagrees with you. Those don't need to be items on the agenda. This is the same board who we just saw in Arvin's presentation.

who says that the congregation decides matters and doesn't direct matters. This is directly opposite to that. I've asked to send these proposed items of new business to the delegates, and I presume you haven't gotten them. I'm happy to be corrected if any of you have actually received those items. Something that was more concerning to me in the response I received from the LLC board

They said, and I quote, it has come to the attention of the LLC that a delegate from a congregation within the Southwest Mission area intends to present a motion stating that the Coastal California Laestadian Lutheran Church is no longer acting in accordance with the Constitution, bylaws, and decisions of the LLC in requesting that delegates initiate the process set forth in Article II, Section 9 of the LLC bylaws regarding the possible expulsion

of Coastal California Laestadian Lutheran Congregation from the membership in the LLC. That's not true. The LLC leadership has been coordinating this effort for months before. They were communicating with the Southwest Area Board, and you know what? The Southwest Area Board actually submitted a draft letter to the LLC saying, hey, should we notify you like this, that we want to seek expulsion of CCLLC? And they discussed it with the LLC, and they all agreed, actually,

It would be better if we all showed up here today with no notice of their intent to raise that motion. So I presume we're going to hear that motion. This is something everybody should have heard a long time ago. It's been discussed apparently for months or maybe years, but there's been no opportunity for these congregations to discuss it with their delegates now before coming here. So you're going to be asked to vote on whether we should proceed with expulsion proceedings

without ever having been able to discuss it in your congregations? Why the need for this stealth? Why do they not want the congregations to have this opportunity to discuss? But I think just as concerning is what the board said. They said, it has come to our attention that Phoenix intends to, or the Southwest area intends to seek expulsion. It didn't just come to their attention. They've been involved, like I said.

What they chose to do instead was to just spring it here without giving anybody notice to discuss when they could have provided the notice, just like with the other topics we're talking about. It's in their own emails. They were discussing this motion and they didn't want us to hear it beforehand. That's very concerning to me. Luther describes this kind of thing. He says, for the Holy Spirit does not come with stealth. He descends in full view from heaven.

The serpents glide unnoticed. The doves fly. You can be sure that this secretiveness is characteristic of the devil." This is, I think, as we remember, the same path that was used in 2022 to ban the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations. There was no prior notice. There was no opportunity to respond. There was nothing in writing or orally that this was going to come up at the meeting. Was it right? Was it legal?

So the LLC board has said it was legal because Minneapolis filed a lawsuit and then they and the LLC agreed to dismiss it. That part's true, they agreed to dismiss it, but there's no explanation as to why that was dismissed. Was it dismissed because the LLC proceeded correctly according to the Constitution and according to the laws? No, the only reason it was pursued, or was not pursued, was doing so under that statute says you need 10% of member congregations

So these are our motions that the board is now saying that I can bring? Yes, you can certainly present your motions to the delegates. If you will, we'll let Briar continue. Got the mic there.

is that there will be time for discussion on each resolution. I'll pull them up now. So the first item is an affirmation

that the Annual Meeting affirmed that under Constitution Section 5 and Bylaws Article 2, Sections 1 and 9, no member congregation may be expelled unless the LLC first states the specific doctrine of the Constitution from which the congregation is alleged to depart, and shows that departure from the Holy Word of God, and that the Annual Meeting acknowledged that the 2022 removals of Minneapolis and Wolf Lake

was carried out without meeting the standard. This is the first item that I talked about, and it is that there was no notice given. There was no specific reference to the Constitution, which is what governs us. If all of that wants to be thrown to the wolves, you can do that, but you must follow it, and you must state why somebody is being expelled according to the Constitution and the specific requirements in there. It must be based on the Holy Word of God

That was not done, and so that's the first proposed motion, is that we recognize that that was not done. That's your first motion? That's correct. Is there a second to that motion? Is there a second to the motion from the delegate from Coastal California?

Seeing so, second on the third motion from the delegate of the Coastal California Congregation. It appears there's not a second for the third to revisit. Will the delegate from the Coastal Congregation please read the second motion? Sure.

that the annual meeting adopt as the settled practice of the LLC consistent with its constitution and bylaws

that before any vote to expel a member congregation, the board of directors shall provide to that congregation and to all delegates a written statement identifying the specific doctrine of the Constitution at issue, setting forth the passages of the holy word of God said to be violated, and describing the efforts made to show the congregation its error and to restore it, and that the affected congregation be given a reasonable opportunity to respond in writing and in person before any vote is taken.

Is there a second to the motion just read by the delegate from the Coastal California congregation? Is there a second?

It doesn't appear that there's a second for that motion. I guess I would first ask you delegates, are you here or not here?

Is there a second to the motion from the delegate of the Coastal California Congregation? Seeing or hearing none, there doesn't appear to be a second for your second motion. Okay, then we'll note and we should make sure that the minutes include these as well.

and the fact that not a single delegate wishes to second a motion that says, we agree, we will follow the law of the state in which we are incorporated. The third item is a resolution that says that because no doctrinal error was ever stated or shown from the holy word of God to justify their removal, the annual meeting rescinds

the 2022 expulsions of the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations and restore them to membership. Is there a second to this motion from the delegate of the Coastal California Congregation? Steve?

I'm putting the mic to Steve Kutka on the left side, center here.

I will refer back to the previous motion, if I could. If the motion is to strictly follow the law, that is set forth by the state bill, I will second that motion. Pardon? If the motion was to strictly follow the law, then I would second that motion. The previous motion that we presented.

Okay, so let's finish up on the final one and we can go back. We were waiting for a second on the motion. I think with a second we would proceed with discussion on the motion. We'll go back to that one that has a second.

This is Jared Huhta from the Prescott Valley. So I'm on the board of the Prescott Valley. I've been part of these conversations of the Southwest area for roughly five years.

And at our last Southwest board meeting, we were trying to figure out how to deal with this particular issue strictly on the temporal side. From a business perspective, how do we deal with an organization that has testified to no longer be traveling with us?

And so it's been an ongoing thing. Keith Kesti has a lot of the communications back and forth and the lack thereof documented. And for any of the congregations here that are interested in knowing some of the history, there's a number of believers here that are familiar with what has happened.

concerning Coastal California. And the intent was never to bring forward a motion today to intentionally expel the congregation. The point was to make all of the congregations of believers aware of the situation.

According to the testimony of Phil Siljander, who is the chairman of the congregation, the Coastal California congregation, we had a long discussion with him. He was invited to attend our last Southwest Area Board meeting, and he did attend remotely. And his testimony was not that of a believer.

And it was a very telling discussion for all of us that were there. He was given some very loving rebuke, but we did not leave or depart from that meeting in unity with him.

He showed us clearly that he was not a believer. And I believe Briar has done us the same favor today. I would do him the favor, if he's still here, to let him know that he is not a believer. He is not traveling with us. I think his testimony, what he read, doesn't answer to any of our spirits, those of us that are believing.

greeted with god's peace in the beginning of his statement but he clearly doesn't bring the peace of god to any of us here and so i'd offer him and rebuke that and sometimes when we fall into self-righteousness and many of these other sins we don't even realize that we're falling into them ourselves so i guess i could offer him the same thing that i did his dad

greeted with god's peace in the beginning of his statement but he clearly doesn't bring the peace of god to any of us here and so i'd offer him and rebuke that and sometimes when we fall into self-righteousness and many of these other sins we don't even realize that we're falling into them ourselves so i guess i could offer him the same thing that i did his dad

You're back in March to let you know, Briar, that you are not a believer, that if you want to repent from unbelief, the opportunity is there to believe even that sin forgiven, that sin of unbelief. So there's a lot of detail that has gone into this.

issue with coastal California, mostly non-participation. And not only that, they have aligned themselves with those in heresy with Lake and Minneapolis. And so it doesn't seem from a business or temporal perspective necessary to maintain an organizational relationship with a congregation that no longer travels with us.

So the awareness is being made here today. And then the steps that need to be carried out are whatever's necessary. And I guess I make a motion now to leave this issue, hear from the delegates, make a motion to leave the LLC board and staff

Those things are corrected by the individual repentance. I was a delegate at the meeting in 2022. I went to that meeting not aware that that was actually coming up, although I think people in the Pelkie congregation were aware of the idea that that would be brought up there. It came from the delegates for sure. And I think that it was

done in a caring way. There were people from all sides that were at that meeting. People took speaking turns and the delegates from the LLC congregations overwhelmingly

voted on that motion to remove Wolf Lake and Minneapolis from LLC membership. But the division had actually occurred before that. There was differences of spirit, faith, and application, and the fellowship was broken. So you can worry about

if some bylaw was exactly followed or however you want to nitpick it. But that decision, when I came to that meeting, I didn't know we were dealing with that.

And I wondered, oh, are we really there to come to that point? We didn't live in Minneapolis or Wolf Lake and hadn't through most of those meetings. And by the time I heard the delegates from those congregations and many other places say their songs of what they'd been through for a few years, I realized that, yes,

This is God's time. And I can say that I comfortably made my vote on Pelkie's behalf, knowing that that congregation would have felt similarly. And that motion carried. Those congregations

were removed from LLC membership and those members though had strayed they were that's just a formality whether they belong to the LLC but as Briar said the LLC is in God's kingdom but they had left God's kingdom

And LLC wants to be serving God's kingdom. And they didn't want the service of the LLC. And I would even question if Wolf Lake or Minneapolis or some of these other factions that are here and there would even want to be part of LLC. We've heard that they are not happy with LLC. So I don't know on whose behalf he's really speaking here.

Steve Collette is next, and then Aaron Huffman. Well, Steve Collette, Brainerd congregation, we've heard Briar's

This is on Alaska, . I read these. I wasn't involved in any of these things back in 2022 or back and forth. But having read prior mails back and forth before we came here, it's really apparent that he's attempting

build another lawsuit, and I would caution the delegates against. Going back and forth with him, I think it's somewhat unwise to do so. I don't think we should approach this from a spiritual matter. If he's aligned with the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations,

And he perceives some sort of division remaining in God's kingdom. And I would say that's a good sign that you're not part of it. Because I'm not involved in any of these discussions. And I can tell you that there's peace and harmony and unity in God's kingdom. There isn't division in God's kingdom. And God's kingdom's not this sort of kingdom where you can litigate your way back into it. You can...

with fancy words even here in this discussion. This isn't a court of law that you can convince delegates to vote your way for some sort of a legal reason. But I think we should have maybe considered that these proposals and his presence here is not misstated intent and we should be careful.

against engaging too much with him. And so I do think that the proposal to allow the LLC board to deal with this is maybe a wise one because I would assume they have counsel to guide that work from a legal standpoint. And it doesn't,

If this is what you guys all dealt with back in 2022, then I can say that this is, yeah, it's very telling that Briar is not in the right place and we don't have to try to argue and go back and forth with him and try to prove that because I think that's what he wants. And I would say that if

which i don't think is the case but if he truly does want to somehow you know come back to god's kingdom or that's the desire then i'd say repent and believe the gospel

So there was an article on the LLC website in January... State your name. Sorry, William Sons and Saskatchewan Congregation. So there was an article on January 1st, 2023, highlighting some of the reasons why the NRC happened, including doctrinal reasons. So everyone could go view that if they wanted. It refers specifically to things like sanctification,

so my motion originally was stated to leave it in the hands of the llc board and staff to do as they see fit i'm willing to amend my motion to say from this body of delegates here at this annual meeting we would like to leave this matter in the hands of the llc board and staff to continue to take whatever steps are necessary

for expulsion of CCLC or CCLLC. Another matter to look at is, I really think this is, it's all just proceedings because

They no longer walk with us. Phil has not been participating in our meetings up until this last one. And at that meeting, he made it very clear that he didn't bleed with us. And Briar is here, made it very clear that he doesn't bleed with us. So I'm not really sure what their goal is.

um it seems to me he's obviously very well very well spoken a brilliant individual he's a lawyer you know he's got a lot of stuff going for him i would think he would just go start his own organization but for i'm not sure exactly what his purpose is but he is a lawyer and lawyers too so

From that standpoint, I would assume that he's putting some legal action together. And so that's why I would like the LLC to move forward seeking legal counsel if necessary. But yes, from the body of delegates here, I believe it is necessary to move forward with taking those steps or expulsion. They no longer walk with us.

And then another point too is if they take this congregation so seriously, I'm just curious why the congregation has been suspended with California Secretary of State since December of 2021. And the only people in their congregation is the immediate family. It's just, you know, I'm just not understanding what the significance of this whole argument is. He seems to want to convince us of,

His heart is softened, we can see your benefits. Would you repeat your motion in a concise manner for the secretary to capture?

From this body of delegates, we would encourage the LLC board and staff to move forward with whatever steps are necessary for the expulsion or expelling of Coastal California Congregation and DC Council if necessary. Is that the motion that you seconded? Was it Ryan?

I agree, Phoenix, Arizona. I second that amended motion. Paul. I just wanted to mention, I don't know all of the people who are associated with the Coastal California congregation.

so this kingdom yet calls in love now we have this motion yet before us and i'm for the delegates to vote on that motion that

We have a clarification of the motion.

Jared clarified it and Ryan seconded it. And now we'll ask all in favor of that motion to raise their hands. Any opposed?

Okay. The ballot counters or the election judges have taken note of that and the secretaries as well. So the motion carries. And

We're still in the new business section. I'm sure there's any additional new business. Seeing none, next item 10 would be adjournment.

Your brothers and sisters. I come from afar and therefore I commit to sin.

completely unaware of what has happened in California before this meeting. Maybe I want to use this meeting to understand some

So for ten years ago, when I was in my first visit about the different understandings in America concerning faith matters,

for us Finnish believers, it was a confusing and big matter. What does this mean? And why we were brought greetings from America. There were a few reasons for that. Others explained unto us how they believed.

and they asked do we understand in the same way? Do we believe in these basic questions in the same way?

And always when we had a discussion, we noticed, yes, we believe the same way. And we left one another in God's peace.

Nevertheless, the matters went that way, as we have learned, and these two congregations separated themselves from this mutual congregation. And we understood in Finland that the question was not of legalities or laws, but the Spirit of God separately.

And if it happens this way, it's difficult to travel together if there's a different spirit. Because when there's a different spirit, love disappears.

For us, that was the perspective or view that came from America. Those brothers and sisters who were married to the forefront.

For us, that was the perspective or view that came from America. Those brothers and sisters who were married to the forefront.

They asked God for understanding and wisdom that they could remain in faith themselves. God protected that the kingdom of God was able to stay pure in a golden candlestick.

And we Finnish believers felt much love towards American brothers and sisters.

Olemme ihastelleet ja nytkin veljet sieltä Suomesta, kun me lähdimme tänne Amerikan suviseuraan, pysyvää välittämää terveisiä. We are marveled over that, and even now when we left Finland, brothers and sisters asked us to convey their feelings. Viimeisissäkin tapaamisissa ja keskusteluissa, missä olemme keskustelleet, mä olen oltanut työstä joskus.

Even at the latest visits where we visited about the work of the kingdom and faith. Brothers asked me to convey this.

Well, when I asked, the speaker turned, feeling very timid in my heart. I asked if I could leave my seat now. Here we are speaking. This discussion

I am a traumatist. During the seven years these discussions have been, that's why I had to go back and forth because I couldn't sit and listen. Devil, you are not, I don't say that, you are not devil. The devil hates believers.

You did as best as you could to describe how you believe, but I'm careful. You must have used hours to put out that explanation. But I hope you understand that we believe differently. We don't hate you. We're not pushing people out. But we believe differently.

And what can you do if you believe differently? If we're honest, we say, I believe. As you lead honest, they say, I believe. You have a right to believe that. But we don't believe that.

Justin Anderson from Rockford. In 2022, pretty young man, younger than I am now.