LLC Board Members' Workshop, Monticello, April 13, 2019 (morning, afternoon, evening sessions)

But solace all alone. The saints attempt your heart to roam.

If with the scornful you would stand,

Fill your hand with fame and gold and pleasure. But stay with me, I bought your soul. I'll take you to the empty oaks.

I give a lasting treasure. My Father's bestowment is true. The earth for hell shall conquer you.

i am

dear brothers sisters welcome feels secure to be here in the midst in your midst nice to join with so many of you here for this day's workshop we every other year have this kind of an opportunity where the boards ministers

I've been able to gather together and discuss around the work of the kingdom, give encouragement to the work, also share ideas and thoughts. And this year, we've added the emphasis to the delegates also to attend. I want to especially welcome you delegates, brothers and sisters.

I think some of you probably feel a little bit out of place, but don't feel out of place. The congregation has entrusted you with the work that you've involved. We felt it important that the delegates would be very involved also in the work.

You are those that the congregation will send to the Bill of Seattle meeting with the congregation's wishes and hopes and plans. So it feels important that you're also included into the spiritual discussion. And this day primarily will be in that regard around the spiritual concerns and situations in our day.

And it's my prayer that God would bless our day. We've already felt and experienced blessing through song and also through our dear brother Jim's devotion. It's a secure place to be so welcome. For those of you who have come

requests, those greetings sent from all quarters of God's kingdom, here and abroad. We live in that kind of a time of difficulty. We're living in a trying time. And the believers feel it.

the prayers of the believers are many and i received a text message from your sister just a few moments ago where she said be still and know that i am god

I will be exalted among the heathen. I will be exalted in the earth. Psalms 46. This is the kind of prayer that God's children are with today. So we can, through joyful hearts, thank him for this opportunity, God for this opportunity. We can...

God's help visit over the matters and things that we are today facing. Before we get to the agenda, I thought of a few practical issues to consider. As you can see on the right-hand side here of the sanctuary,

We reserved that primarily for guests and visitors. We didn't know how many would be coming. We wanted to have a spot available for them if there were those that had come and do come. And for the sake of the moderators, we thought that it would be nice that the meeting participants

with the LLC board that it would be best that meeting participants would be given opportunity to speak and verse at the meeting. Your congregations, after all, have sent you here and they've sent you and expended a lot of resources to send you, so we felt an

in fairness to the meeting, that those who have been asked to serve will be given the first opportunity to speak. There will also be some online who will be requesting a time to speak. And as a letter was sent out earlier this week, Adrian and Aaron Wafo, their phone numbers have been left on that paperwork.

to speak as well. I'm not sure how many will be joining remotely, but I'm guessing that will be a fairly significant number who will be joining remotely. We had to sign in this morning, and for those of you who haven't signed in, take opportunity during the day, during the breaks, to sign in.

We had around 230 who had registered for the camp for the day, and the ladies here had asked how many we should prepare for meals, and I said, well, let's plan for 250. Well, Jessica said that there's 250 already signed up, and any number who haven't signed in yet.

Some of you guys might have to run a McDonald's. I think there's McDonald's, there's Taco Time, there's Mexican, there's Chinese, and Monticello's. So let's see. Let's see how this works. Maybe it will be as ordinary in the time of Jesus that the river flows through.

But practical things come to play.

bring greetings to each of you from the LLC office staff and also the LLC board. This workshop has been organized and set up by the LLC in support of the congregation boards and delegates and speakers. Yesterday we had a board meeting

And we rejoice there at the board meeting that God has preserved mutual unity and love of spirit there amongst those brothers that serve you here in North American Zion. And also that there amongst the staff, we've also been very thankful for this, that the unity and love of the spirit remains amongst the office.

It's very difficult to work who is different. As you brothers know, in some of these times it's been difficult in those discussions and gatherings when there are different voices, different thoughts, different understandings. It slows the work down. We've been thankful that God has preserved that among

We have asked our dear Huddy to present the topic for our discussion today, the Holy Spirit and the congregation of God. We will be distributing that presentation after the workshop, so please sign your email or leave your email on the assignment list so that we can make sure that you get that.

we will send those out at the beginning. The time we're living, the work continues, and it's important. We see many young, we see the camps full, congregations full. There's much need for the work of God's kingdom.

And may God give to us also that kind of time of work and blessing where the teaching of our young ones and the sowing of God's word might continue. In our Brother Honey's presentation, you will find that there are three timely concerns.

And I rejoice that God has given your brother that kind of presentation that I think will very well edify us here today.

a document that was sent out just last week entitled Confession of Faith, written by Eric Skoug and Warren Rison. I mention it only for this reason that

In that document, I'm sure there are things that we could agree with, yet this document has caused great trouble and unrest in North America's eye. It may be today that we will, and some of you would want to speak to that, and of course God knows how this day will go.

But my hope in the beginning would be this, that with this presentation that our brothers put together, that we could speak about this presentation. Because for me, when I read the presentation of our brother, it was a clear confession of faith. It's how I believe. My heart rejoiced when I read it.

And it would be well, I think, for us to speak of how we believe, what it is that gives us hope, what it is that gives us joy, expectation of the

Also, although you know this letter was sent, it was also a follow-up email that Eric sent. I'm sure many of you have also received that. But in that follow-up, Eric had sent this kind of request to the congregations that he would be able to take away that part of it, and he felt

that he was wrong in sending this, and he had asked for forgiveness for that. So we can be thankful that God has also worked in the heart of our brother in that way. And keeping that in mind, that in this endeavor and in this battle with your brothers, we're not battling against flesh and blood.

over battling against principalities, darkness, all of that which is the enemy of souls, we want the soul among us. May God help us. May God give us that kind of a day where there is freedom and unity. And in the end, we will be able to leave with that kind of joyful knowledge and hope in our heart

God continues to preserve me personally in this kingdom, but also that God's kingdom firmly stands. It's my joy today. But brothers and sisters, I come this morning feeling my own temptations. And there are many doubt stories that can I also be reassured? Can I believe my sins and God's forgiveness?

I so long to believe with each of you, with your brothers and sisters. So you can see this is the overview, or the agenda rather. Hari, now after Psalm 368, we'll keep this presentation of the congregation of God and the Holy Spirit. Kurt Simonson has promised to moderate

And then this afternoon, the discussion continues until our planned closing is 4.30, where we're going to keep our closing devotion. And in the afternoon, Chair Glenn and Keith Oka will moderate the discussions.

Just a practical matter, if you would, when you're taking a speaking turn, simply state your name and congregation where you're serving so that, for record, you have that.

I'm the world's worst, so I would expect that we all need to be reminded to state our name and congregations. So, with those few opening comments, welcome, dear brothers, sisters, and may God bless our day together. Let's now sing song number 368.

I'm like stressed.

And helpeth me to cry My Father without ceasing To Him who dwells on high And where my soul is lying

In things we're frozen, sighing, that cannot be expressed. But God's way by His mercy, all the world may give no sound.

If the hearts be proud

expected he evermore shall be.

is that this meeting will be recorded. We have the possibility of doing that, because it's being broadcast on Google Meet. So we'll record it from there. So there will be an official meeting recording. So I just wanted to make that nice and I left that on my notes so I didn't see that.

Do you hear me? Good morning everyone and God's peace. First of all, from my part, welcome to visit matters of God's kingdom and living faith.

When I was listening and enjoying the opening devotion by brother Jim, it came to my mind also that when I have had difficult times in my faith life, how important it has been to me that my closest escort has reminded me that

that living faith is same today than it has been 10 years ago, or 100 years ago, or 2,000 years ago. And living faith is exactly the same that young Joseph had in Egypt, and whoever former saint and believer. Also, God's kingdom is exactly the same.

Once it was very small in the Ark of Noah. We remember that only eight persons were saved. But this is the same kingdom, and is there any more secure place than that kingdom? That's why we can freely

come and enjoy God's holy word and what He wants to teach us. When I, many times, I'm a little bit person, upside, up and down person and my wife is not and that's why she's so grateful to me. She many times reminds me that hardly in faith there is nothing difficult

Nothing would be sad or makes us sad. But only joyful manner. All difficulties and doubts and sins comes from enemy of the soul and my own flesh. It's good to remember that. When I was

I was coming here, I thought that how would be our minds and hearts when we come to discuss matters of faith? Are we like sheep who come to listen what a good shepherd says? Listen his voice.

Or do I have ears to hear? Or do I have some more, something my own, what I want to bring? And maybe defend and so on.

And then it came to my mind, this one verse from the Epistle of Philippians and chapter 2 verse 5, what kind of mind I need when I come to serve, when I come to discuss.

When we gather around God's word and everywhere in my life, let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. It's a mind that I need.

And when I was asked to present here, I can say that my thoughts and my feelings have been two different ways to our feelings.

one part i have to confess before you that i didn't have a feeling that yes here i come and i say i say i'm not a star no but more more that

And first, because of my doubts, I felt that presentation should be perfect, large, and handle every doctrine of marriage, and the whole Bible, and all the books, and all that. I told this to my wife, and she said, it's enough of God, God is for you.

Same time I have had some feelings of Prophet Jonah, because we know that when difficult times to come, it makes us weak and tired, and I have had a little bit this

This is my other home country. In my mind has called me a little more than earlier. I still enjoy to be here. But some because of doubts, some those thoughts of Prophet Jordan. God, why you have sent me to be, live here and serve here.

But we know that God has his own plan and was so precious to me and saying God's kingdom is here than in my other home country in Finland. To me it's very clear and that's my refuge also here. I feel good to see you brothers and sisters and I know that

Like Eric said, this presentation discussion will be recorded, but I trust your forgiving hearts and minds. Don't go and pick up my weak words, but if you can hear the voice of God, then we thank God. I have made this presentation

based on my former presentation that I gave some years ago in Speakers and Wives meeting in Jyväskylä in Finland because topic was saying the Holy Spirit or maybe it was the office of the Holy Spirit and

And so, and these other thoughts that I have had has been great joy to spend time with God's holy word. It's always good and also the writings of former believers from different times.

But then we go to presentation and it's good that you can read also this text because of my sometimes very terrible English, but I apologize that if you don't understand all you can... I don't apologize that, that you can read it, but if you can't understand what I say. I made this presentation first in Finnish and then it has translated. I'm thankful for this help that I got.

First of all we go to study a little bit and listen that what scriptures and Christian doctrine says about Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is one of the forms or persons in which God presents himself.

The Holy Spirit is not of itself a separate God, but is God Himself. The Athanasian Creed declares, So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three gods, but one God.

God's actions are manifested through the three persons of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The same Creed makes the following observation about the Holy Ghost and the Trinity of God. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is one Father, not three Fathers, one Son, not three Sons, one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after another, none is greater or lesser than another,

the whole three Persons of the Godhead are co-eternal and co-equal, so that in all things, as aforesaid, the unity in Trinity and the Trinity in unity is to be worshiped." It's easy to agree with what our brother, I think, Peter Nisselaar, writes in this new book, to Christ the same, yesterday, today,

and forever, it was published by SRK last summer, and it's one of the most beautiful and deepest theology, what has made during centuries. It's so beautiful, there is all, it's lacking nothing, and how God has two believers formed, who those first Christians formed those different creeds.

Examining the Word of God leads us to discover the following from these passages. Jesus tells the disciples, For the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

What connection same God brings to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you. And you can read those quotes from scriptures and books that I feel that I don't have to read them.

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son in a tangible manner as well. Having said these things, He breathed on them and said unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Then the Holy Spirit works in many ways. First, affecting directly.

And without any man, man or group or congregation. According to the Apostles Creed, Jesus son of God was conceived by the Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost. And the angel answered and said unto her,

the holy ghost shall come upon you upon thee and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee therefore therefore also that holy thing that shall be born of thee shall be called the son of god it's a great miracle that that many people today they say they say that they they

They don't believe that because, of course, for a reason so difficult to understand and believe. But we have to believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost. Because it was one part of God's salvation plan. Without that, salvation is not possible.

The Holy Ghost descended upon Jesus as part of his baptism in the Jordan River. And one more example, the Spirit of the Lord whisked the disciple Philip away from the vicinity of the chariot of the Ethiopian Union, once the same had received the grace of repentance.

He was free right back to Jerusalem. Second, in God's congregation. Then had the churches rest in all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria, and were edified. And in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied. Oh, sorry.

As they ministered to the Lord and passed, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me, Barnabas and Saul, for the word unto I have called them. Clear message and instructions from the Holy Ghost. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things.

At the Jerusalem meeting were apostles gathering and the elders and members of Jerusalem congregation. And we remember that it was a question of this circumcision and following God's orders. The Holy Spirit leads and governs God's congregation. He is the leader. Third,

Either Holy Spirit works in a believing person or to another person. The Old Testament tells us the following about Othniel, the son of Caleb's younger brother, Kenan. And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he judged Israel.

The last words spoken by the believing King David included, The Spirit of the Lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue. And here, there is no self-praising or pride in David's declaration. He is referring to a covenant that God had agreed upon with him.

And when, again, one example, and when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them, and they spake in tongues and prophesied. The Apostle Paul is performing the duties of the office of the gospel as he was entrusted to do. What was this part of the text from Acts 19.6?

The authority to proclaim the gospel of forgiveness is held only by a person who has, through faith, gained the Holy Spirit, which abides in him or her.

Only in this way is the blessing of Christ's redemption work brought unto the person, to be earned by the person and for his or her salvation through the office of atonement. And for and last how the Holy Spirit works in many ways.

God's Word and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit opens the Word of God to the possessors of that Spirit, the believer, to a reader, preacher, as well as a listener of the Word. And the Holy Spirit makes the Word alive.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom did teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth. How comparing spiritual things with spiritual! But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God.

for they are foolishness unto him. Neither can we know them because they are spiritually discerned. We will return this later that spiritual matters we can understand only by God's Spirit, not by human reason. It is the Spirit that quickened. The flesh provided nothing.

It is the spirit that quickened, the flesh provided nothing. The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life. Without the gift of Holy Spirit, the word of God did not open to the Ethiopian eunuch.

He needed a child of God, Philip, to help him. The eunuch said to Philip, how can I expect some man should guide me? He had a scripture, but not Philip had a key. And he opened this God's word to the eunuch and as we remember he received the grace of repentance.

Paul told Timothy, now the Spirit speaketh expressly that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of the devils. Paul said that. Spirit said that to him.

Then we go to next subtitle and place how the Holy Spirit gives birth to faith in the fellowship of God's congregation.

In the first place, the Holy Spirit has a communion all His own in the world. That communion is the mother that brings to birth and sustains every Christian through the birth of God. The Apostle Paul describes how the relationship between Christ and His congregation is a great mystery.

It is like the relationship of the husband and wife in a marriage. It is possible that even we do not understand this mystery, we can be included in that marriage and feel joy therein. Many times I really don't understand my marriage, but I enjoy it.

For this cause shall man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they too shall be one place. This is a great mystery. But I speak concerning Christ and the Church.

Think about marriage, how close relationship it is, how two will be one. And so close is the relationship between Christ and congregation. Head and body. We know what happens if the head has cut off from the body. There is no life anymore in the body and of course

head alone, it's not whole body. When Jesus sent his disciples to preach the saving gospel, that gospel was on a specific subject. It was not just a gospel about generalities, but it was a gospel about the kingdom of God.

The gospel we proclaim today is on exactly the same subject. It is a gospel about Jesus Christ, the King of the Kingdom of God. So then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

When we read our confession scriptures, it's interesting that how it is said here. But the will of man has no power without the Holy Ghost. To work the righteousness of God, that is spiritual righteousness. Since the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God.

Quote 1 Corinthians, but this righteousness is brought in the heart when the Holy Ghost is received through the Word. Our will has no power to receive or comprehend or own the Holy Ghost. It's word of God.

Regarding the essential purpose of the Holy Spirit, Luther observes, So the Holy Spirit from his office must be called the sanctifier or one that makes holy. But how is the sanctification accomplished? The answer is,

As the Son obtained His Lordship by purchasing us with His birth, His death, His resurrection, etc., so the Holy Spirit effects our sanctification through all the following, the communion of saints, the Christian Church,

the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life eternal. In other words, by leading us into His holy communion, in that He lays us upon the bosom of the Church, which becomes our teacher and leader unto Christ.

has always always been like like this that's why god's kingdom it's a place where man can find a new life in jesus christ the sermon

The sermon exhorting to repentance is heard from the congregation of God. And it is in the fellowship of this congregation that repentance can occur. The Holy Spirit works in many ways, as we heard earlier, but affects righteousness only when one has contact with the Kingdom of God.

The fifth article of the Augsburg Confession states, the sharing of the gospel and the sacraments through this has to mean

He gives the Holy Spirit who works faith where and when He pleases in those who hear the gospel. We know how many people hear the gospel, but only some of them, they receive and believe in this gospel.

There were two things on the cross next to Jesus. One received this redemption work that Jesus was doing right that time. This other one didn't. But see,

Ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you. Luther observes in his explanation of the Greek, For neither you nor I could ever know anything about Christ,

or believe in Him and receive Him as our Lord, if it were not first offered to us and given into our hearts by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel. The next subtitle is, The Holy Spirit Gathers the Congregation of Christ

unites its members to each other and edifies it as the body of Christ. The Holy Spirit is God, as we noted in the beginning in the Athanasian Creed.

God works soberly, but the work of Christ continues as the work of the Holy Spirit in his congregation. Remember those Jesus own words as what we heard earlier.

In his discussion with the Pharisee Nicodemus, Jesus compares the Holy Spirit to the wind. In Greek, the word pneuma means both wind and spirit. There is not only one meaning, but two meanings, wind and spirit, same word pneuma.

The wind bloweth where it is, and outwears the songs thereof. But canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth? So is every one that is born of the Spirit. Just as we can neither see nor know where the wind blows,

Neither can we see or explain by reason the presence or action of the Holy Spirit. Nevertheless, just as we can sense and hear the blowing of the wind, we can also sense the presence and voice of the Holy Spirit, and further, by faith, we can keep Him in our heart.

We can't see or touch, but we can own and keep. The unity created by the Holy Spirit is actually more intense than any temporal feeling or mutually held opinion. The Holy Spirit gives birth to faith and makes a person a child of God.

As a result of his or her faith, a person is partaker in the unity of the believers and also in their mutual understanding, love and unanimity as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Without the Holy Spirit, this unity is missing. If there is no Holy Spirit, there is no unity. And it cannot be restored through mutual wishing, understanding, or compromises made by people, as for example ecumenism, where churches try to make unity and say, let us make compromises.

I bring on the table this, you bring that, and we check that what unites us. But it's not unity of Holy Spirit. But when there is Holy Spirit, there is unity. Interesting and clear.

The epistle to the Philippians has this to say about the unity created by the Holy Spirit. Okay, what the Bible says about that. If there be therefore any consolation in Christ.

If any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bows and mercies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye be like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

say prayer and what we heard when Brother Jim gave a opening devotion. This 1992 Finnish translation of the Bible renders this as, Fulfill ye my joy and be like-minded. May ye be united together by love, harmony, and agreement. The Holy Spirit

This affects love, tranquility and one-mindedness among believers. Even though we have varying opinions and views on temporal matters, we need to be one-minded in matters of faith and doctrine of Christ.

It is sin what breaks the love and unity of the Spirit between children of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil. Whosoever doth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The Holy Spirit bestows a variety of great gifts upon believers. You have something, I have something. Together there is more.

They are intended for the edification of the mutual congregation. That's why they have given to us the edification of the mutual congregation and not for fruiting one's personal advantage, personal standing, charisma, or leadership status.

God hasn't given those gifts to me that I can be something, but that congregation can be something. That it edifies my gifts, edifies the congregation, not my personal needs. It's good to remember.

When we have been called to serve, for example, as a minister or teacher in the congregation of God, we should humbly ask ourselves, are my gifts and my service edifying the congregation of Christ? It is important for one who has been called to be a servant of the Word or a teacher

for his or her own faith, and to subject himself or herself to care by the congregation. This is above all for the sake of being able to remain believing, but for ministers also so that he could tend or watch over the flock of the Lord. As it has said in Acts,

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. The congregation calls the servants of the Word, and also cares for them.

I have told my own part that it's not a great accident if I don't serve because there are many other sermons. But it's good that I can hear the word of God.

And when the congregation of God takes care of me, I have published picture that when I'm sick and I go to doctor or my close one says that you are sick, you need help. I like if this doctor doesn't so much.

put the finger to my painful place but with kind words says that this is a little painful but I want to help you and heal you and good that you came and he has to give me clear

picture that was my situation that that if i have a cancer and he said that you have a little headache it's not the whole picture but i have to to be known that i have cancer now i need health and and all treatment and so hey let's go forward now there are diversities of gifts

but same Spirit. My God, God is so wise that He knows what kind of gifts congregation needs and give different persons different gifts. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit with all. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge by same Spirit,

to another faith by the same Spirit, to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another diverse kind of palms, to another interpretation of palms,

and the same Spirit, divining to every man severely as he will." It's so interesting to read these three chapters of 1 Corinthians 12, 13, and 14. They're so good instructions for every one of us.

because we don't go so far but we know that how there was a conflict between different persons and gifts in congregation of Corinth and they raised a little bit more or elevated this gift to speak in tongues that he is a believer who speaks in tongues

But Paul says that it's not edifying the congregation, but this person is speaking to God. But if nobody explains that, how it helps others? Ask the gift of prophecy. It edifies the congregation.

And then, as a spirit of unity, the Holy Spirit does not cause striving, schism, differing teaching, or unrest. The Holy Spirit never causes that. Our flesh causes that a lot. These are caused by the sin that abides in a human being

The Holy Spirit clarifies our vision of Christ, and God gathers the flock to him, not to me or you, not any speaker, but to him who is shepherd. The conversation that has to be gathered by the Holy Spirit is in one faith, one mind, and one heart.

They possess many gifts but are one in love without sect or division, as Luther explains in large characters. I will say this we know because in the Creed, with which we confess our faith, we say,

I believe in a holy mutual congregation. Therefore, it is impossible that the congregation to err in even the most minor point related to faith. That's Luther writing in his book, The Bondage of the Wind. And of course, he's speaking about the congregation of Christ that time.

And it's interesting, it's impossible that the congregation to err in even the most minor points relating to faith. Is it to me very important to be part of this congregation but never to err? Because I have been done. Then the next subtitle is the Holy Spirit as a teacher.

The congregation of God has always encouraged the reading of the Bible.

The sacred word of God. We have after all also been given a key as Apostle Philip when he met his Ethiopian eunuch, the Holy Spirit to understand it. Oh, there's many, many guys who know every verse of this Bible, but it's a mystery for them without a key. How to open the door without a key.

We previously quote Apostle Paul's observation that it is possible to understand this special revelation of God only with the aid of the Holy Spirit.

The Confessional Documents of Lutherans expresses it in this way. The Holy Spirit opens the heart and understanding to comprehend the Bible. A songwriter indeed puts it beautifully as follows. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. The Apostle Peter also urges us

to even more firmly trust in the prophetic word. Co-translated from the 1994 finished translation of the Bible is this, what I told. And the King James Version says, as this corresponding verse, we have also a more sure word of prophecy. Where unto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,

until the day dawn and the day star arises in your hearts. This prophetic word is the word of God which becomes a living word when enlightened by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit never teaches contrary to the word of God.

If there is some teaching that is against God, it is not from Holy Spirit. They are always in the same mind. God never works against Him.

The Holy Spirit never teaches contrary to the Word of God, but is totally aligned with it. The Holy Spirit opens this already completed revelation of God, the Holy Spirit.

There is not coming new revelation. Holy Bible is Holy Bible and given by God, but Holy Spirit opens this given and completed revelation by Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not teach in many different ways about justification, sin and the forgiveness of sins, the sacraments,

the endeavour, the kingdom of God, or any other matters in faith. Neither we can believe in a different way than the holy mutual congregation, for it is of the same faith, mind and understanding as Luther noted above.

We may have experienced at the services or other gatherings of believers how the Holy Spirit has enlightened and opened the understanding of some matter on the basis of the Word of God. The same word of the Holy Spirit occurred

in the same time of the apostles at the meeting in Jerusalem, for it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us. Through the Holy Spirit we hear the voice of Christ, the Good Shepherd, even when the Spirit is speaking to a servant of the Word who is weak,

and sinful in himself. Dear speaker brothers, think about that. Not even the errors arising from his being human or his weak words can cover up the voice of the good shepherd. This is our refuge. Not even the errors arising from his being human or his weak words can cover up the voice of the good shepherd.

And there's a long writing where Luther explains that, that how sheep hears the voice of the Good Shepherd. On the other hand, not even the most educated speaker is able to produce the voice of the Good Shepherd without faith and the Holy Spirit.

Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the Word of God does not open and become a living word for its speaker or hearer. When speaking of the office of preaching, as based on John 10, 1, 11, Luther reminds us that the duty of the hearers, the sheep, is to

determine if they are hearing the voice of the good shepherd in the speaker's voice. He says, or writes, the sheep evaluate and distinguish if the voice is the correct one or not. The hearers say, have at it now, if you have come to any conclusion, we will examine it for correctness

And we will be making our decision in accordance with the right to criticize, which has been given to every Christian individual, not by human authority, but instead by godly authority. For that is exactly what natural sheep do. They flee from the stranger's voice.

and cling to the voice of their own shepherd. How it is our prayer of heart that God would speak to the weak servant and congregation of God. The flock of Jesus could be fed and hear the voice of Jesus.

The next subtitle is by faith or understanding. This is very interesting and timely topic also. Even the believing person's understanding is very limited. We don't know why, but God knows. This is the way God has seen fit.

With bonds of the Spirit, God has joined us to his congregation, which, according to the word of God, is the pillar and ground of the truth. What is meant by this? We have heard it many times.

Why he has said like this? Jesus says that he himself is the way, the truth and the life. He doesn't say that you are the truth or you are the truth or you are the truth. He says I am the truth. Paul, you are not the truth. Peter, you are not the truth. I am the truth.

the way and the truth and the life he is the head of the congregation body perfection and truth when we have by faith

and the Holy Spirit connection to the body of Christ, we also have a connection to its head, to the body. My arm is not from head, but there is shoulder and stuff. I don't know the names of them. But you know what I mean. There's a head and then body. Fingers and knees and kidney.

We are some of them, all of us. But who's the head? Jesus. He commands us. He knows. He understands head. And he says that do this, don't do that. He teaches. I decided to walk. My brain says, how do you walk? Take steps. And commands my different limbs. Okay.

When we have by faith and Holy Spirit connection to the body of Christ, we also have a connection to its head. The congregation of the God is the pillar and ground of the truth because Christ dwells in the congregation. That's why the congregation has the truth. Christ is the truth in the congregation. God reveals this truth to us through the Holy Spirit in His Word and in His congregation.

I think that we don't have conflict with that. If a person through sin loses his connection to the congregation of Christ, he also loses the connection to the truth that is in Christ. Then he relies when it comes to matters of faith on his own reason and understanding.

There is no more spirit who tells what's the truth, what's enough. But then he has to use his reason to solve all the problems. What a great verse. Oh, boy.

There are two ways to understand, by faith and spirit or without faith and spirit and the truth. And then a man, he has only his own reason and way and his own understanding.

If we compare, I'd like to stop a little bit, if we compare human reason and the whole blood spirit, the spirit of the truth, when we try to understand or handle those questions.

I remember years ago one discussion with one young person who sent me an email and told that I can't believe anymore if I don't receive the answers of my three questions. Can you hardly answer to me?

I emailed back that thanks for your contact and I tried to do that but I can't promise that I can answer to your questions. I tell how I believe and that's all I can do. But if you receive the answers to your three questions,

Is it enough? Are you always after that able to believe? Or when comes next three questions? Same day? Next day? Next week? And our human reason is thirsty and hungry always to solve more. It's not any time

What's the word? Satisfied. It's always hungry. Because we can go deeper. When we have solved one problem, there's three more. If there's any scientist, you know that. If we know some stars, there's some more. Some billions. And there's always more and more questions.

And I say that I understand that first comes faith and then God gives to us so much understanding that we need. And our souls is satisfied with spirit.

But reason is always hungry and thirsty to know more. It's not the best tool. It's a terrible tool to try to solve the... As Paul says earlier that we can understand spiritual matters by spirit, not by reason. Clearly, it's the best. And then, it never...

come to same conclusion than to the Spirit. This is our reason. Reason has different conclusion or understanding than the Spirit. And Holy Spirit opens and reveals as much as we need to remain in living faith and get to Heaven. And it can happen also here

What might happen as a result?

is that the teaching, if we use this reason and understanding that we don't have connection into the congregation by faith and spirit, it can happen that the teaching of the kingdom of God may start to seem trivial and simple. It does not necessarily contain the type of depth that would meet his own need to understand the mysteries of God.

Thus the familiar and simple servants might begin to seem like the same old miserable food or white bread that the people of Israel got sick and tired of. The Bible tells us that the people then turned against God and Moses.

That food given by God, the man, was nevertheless sufficient and good. It kept them alive. In the same way, the word of God preached through the Holy Spirit feeds our souls.

Again, something more about faith and understanding.

Say again. Next page. Next page, yeah. Yeah, we would be well advised to ask within our heart, and this is a very personal question to me, am I content with the food that God offers me in the word preached by the congregation, or does it seem to me to be miserable food? Do I want to hear a more profound and timely message

which would provide more answers and understanding. Must I understand first so I would believe, or can I be content by having the faith come first and let God thereby grant sufficient understanding as a gift? The sin that abides in our flesh is sometimes exposed as pride.

And also by emphasis on personal understanding and knowing. And one other example of my own life about knowing, understanding and faith. It was one unbelieving man that I visited. We had a nice discussion.

He told that he grew up in believing family, but it never came very personal, this faith matter. He went to services with mom and dad, and he had believing friends. But finally he left. It wasn't personal faith. And after one trip in the world, he said he found that every man needs some kind of foundation of his life. To someone it's some kind of ideology, or religion, or...

or something like that, but some kind of foundation. And he came to me and asked that he can we visit, I would like to understand conservative West Asian faith. I said, you are welcome, we can visit. We met many times, and he said that I have a lot of questions. I don't remember, maybe three, four pages, questions. I don't remember how many tens of questions.

We started to visit and it was nice. I really enjoyed that. Sometimes I say the same first that I can't promise that I have answers. But I can tell how I believe. And then some part I thought that no, hey, we are coming. He told first that I'm not seeking anything. But of course it was clear to me later that he was seeking. But when we came closer and closer to Father's home,

as a prodigal son, he had asked me that, can we stop if I want? I said that all the time, won't you tell me? That time he said that, can we stop now?

I can't continue the discussion. I said, of course, no problem with that. And when we talk about those matters, I ask that, okay, let us say, I don't remember his name, and it's not important, but I say that, okay, okay, Mark, what do you think about when I have answered this, your last question, are you a believer? What he asked me, I don't think so. I said, right answer.

Faith comes by hearing God's word, believing in the gospel of forgiveness. You are right. And when he was leaving, we were standing outside of this place where we met. He had his bicycle, and we had some kind of silence, a little bit, that's how we continued.

Do we continue our discussions? And he told me, I don't know what will happen tomorrow, next week. At this moment, I want to ask, can I believe what Paul seems to forget? It's interesting how after this most important question, those other questions wasn't so important to him.

He found first, most important question, how I came to get to heaven. And I always remember this moment. The Apostle Paul reminds us that knowledge buffeted up, but charity edified.

When the Holy Spirit directs the congregation, the counsels that it issues are correct and in accordance with the mind of God. Sometimes a forceful person or group have an influence that will confuse us and make many of us sorrowful. We can, however,

Trust that the Spirit of God will make sure that the matter will be corrected and one-mindedness will be restored in the congregation. It is not easy for me, for us, to admit when we have heard

have understood incorrectly, we may implore God to give us a humble heart when he needs to instruct, rebuke, and correct us through his word, or through a travel companion, or the congregation of God. Some reminders from the word of God under the same subtitle.

Ye, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility. For God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

I dwell in the high and holy place with him also that is of contrite and humble spirit to revive the spirit of the humble and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. The apostle Paul tells us how God had given him a thorn in the flesh

the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. He prayed that God would free him from such torment. God responded to Paul, My grace is sufficient for thee, for my strength is made perfect in weakness.

We may pray God that we too would be content with the understanding and above all with the grace that God grants us. When I started my theology studies in 1999, I had a temptation of knowledge. Enemy of souls came to me and said,

When you go to services, do you see how simple are services? They never tell you and explain what really happens in Communion, Holy Supper. Why they are so simple? Now you know a little bit more. It was nice to receive good tools to come to know doctrinal matters, practical theology, systematical theology, exegetics.

Church history, science of religions, but at the same time in education. Many times. And try to turn my heart how simple is the walk of God. The service in your own congregation.

or second studying years he took to heaven my 18 months old boy I have remembered many times I need small voice faith no more if God gives some understanding I really pray that in my real life in driver's on driver's place there is always childlike faith

Not my pride, not my need to know, not my knowledge, my studies. Because we know that our important place is driver's place in the vehicle. And if childlike faith takes driver's place, then Holy Spirit steers and drives this vehicle.

And then there is a space for understanding, studying scriptures, doctrines. I know many brothers, I can say that they have understanding a lot. But that congregation has been able to use their gifts because of childlike faith. When my oldest son went to University of Helsinki to study his theological studies,

He decided or was called to follow dad's steps. I say that every day. Remember August, earlier brother, and his childlike faith. Study freely, learn a lot, but remember small boy's faith. That's enough what we need. If we have kingdom of God, all has added to me.

And many times I really enjoy when God opens his holy word.

through a weak servant, no matter what's his background, no matter that, I rejoice. And I feel that, ooh, what a gift. I try to be not enemy, but sometimes it happens. And I rejoice because of those gifts, when they edify the past congregation and feeds my soul.

Okay, I think, it came to my mind, what was my lesson, like Paul has a thought in this place, that what's enough? Grace that God grants us.

As children of God, we have the joy and privilege to discuss all issues related to faith. There's no problem with that. Of course, it's good to think that what's the best forum. When we have matters of receiving children or this relationship in marriage, maybe couples can be a good place.

Sometimes it's Bible class, sometimes it's private conversation. But we don't have limits to do that. But we have to ask that my attitude, my heart would be right. Not debating like those Pharisees and these scribes. Many times they came to Jesus to debate and tried to catch him by words. Sometimes Jesus rejected them, but no, he didn't answer or he asked something from them.

Where such discussions are conducted on a foundation of living faith and as guided by the Holy Spirit, our souls receive food.

If the discussion arises from a person's own flesh, it will easily turn into a debate with a focus on who is correct and whose understanding is stronger. At such a time, the discussion will stray to the pathways of human understanding or knowledge or level of education.

The Apostle Paul points out to Timothy that there were those in Ephesus who had spread some other doctrine which genders strive. Some have strayed away from a good conscience and of faith unloved.

They had begun to engage in vain, genuine, or maybe other words, jargon. According to the Apostle Paul, they do this desiring to be a teacher of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. Oh, Jesus is very good at words against them.

Such behavior, says the Apostle Paul, is not for the purpose of godly edifying which is in faith. Even when we lack abundant understanding or we are bothered by questions lacking answers, we may trust in the great promises of God

and be believing in good cheer. If we think about this question of forgiveness of sins, it's more important to believe in it than understand it. Our faith is not dependent on our own understanding of God's mysterious, but on God's grace on our behalf. Now, brothers, how precious is the example of disciples

When the disciples had difficulties understanding the statements of Jesus regarding the enormity of God's grace, they demanded neither more explanation nor greater understanding from Jesus, but instead pleaded, increase our faith.

Then, next subtitle, the Holy Spirit exhorts, teaches, and pardons us. The Holy Spirit acts as the voice of God to teach within the heart of a believer. It requires us to do what is correct and forbids us from doing what is wrong, as Christian doctrine explains in part 16.

16, about the conscience. A person must be obedient to that voice. If my spirit says that, Harry, it was wrong. I don't have to come to your brother and ask, was it wrong? Do I have to read? Do I sorrow over my sins? If God's spirit says that it was wrong. Many times my place says, it was okay, it was nothing. Never my place has instructed me to repent. Never.

But spirit has insert many times. And it continues and repeats. What you did? What you did? Why? Hey, go and ask for forgiveness. It never says that it's always too small thing or too big thing. It's never like a good size. That's nice thing to go and confess. Never. Always it's something else.

And that's why it's, we don't have to start to think others since that, do you need to repent or not? Holy Spirit in believer's heart says what is right. It's a voice of God. A person must be obedient to the voice and not believe it. The actions of the conscience are based on the word of God.

It is possible for the conscience, because of sin, to harden so that we would no longer hear the voice of God. The Holy Spirit directs us to put sin away and to repair it. Bridges in the relationship between persons. In this way, we maintain faith and a good conscience.

So, as to support the slander and purchase conscience, God allows us to also hear the voice of the Holy Spirit in His congregation. The Bible often exhorts us to hear what the Spirit said unto the churches.

The Holy Spirit exhorts us to live in a godly manner and to sanctify ourselves for God. We are not capable of sanctifying ourselves of our own power. As we know that faith is God's word, it sanctifies us also. We have nothing to do with that. But God himself sanctifies us

We cannot, however, believe in sin or be lenient about sin, but we must battle against it with the weapons provided by God. When we are obedient to the voice of God, we are obedient to God. When we are disobedient to the voice of God, we are disobedient to God. It's His voice.

The Church Father, Augustine, who is often called by Luther, makes the following observation of the work of the Holy Spirit in a believing person thusly. Now the Lord is that Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Here we have the Spirit of God, and through it we have, as

provides for us the desire to do not commit sins, and therein we have our liberty. One must cease from the work of the bondsman and celebrate as a spiritual sabbath. It's from Augustine's book, The Spirit and Believer.

It's interesting how clear was understanding, and he really got to remember right third or fourth century. The Holy Spirit warns us about sin, teaches us to do what is right, and exhorts us to take care of matters that trouble our conscience, that trouble our conscience.

basing his assertion on Christian doctrine, and specifically on three of the doctrines. Our brother, Epi Renikainen, spoke in his introduction, The Wholesome Doctrine, at the Congregation Elders and Speakers' Meeting at the Summer Services in Olusava in 1982, about the influence of the Holy Spirit on the gift of confession, stating,

In confession, we put away those sins that the Holy Spirit has put a spotlight on in our conscience. When we confess these to a confessor father, it is as though we are confessing them to God. And when the confessor father, another child of God, proclaims the forgiveness of sin, it is a word of God, not a man.

Done through the Holy Spirit, confession does not give us our salvation. Its purpose is for preserving the mystery of faith in a clean conscience. Same way, as we explained to Luther earlier.

We tell, when we confess our sins, we tell our sins into the ear of God. And when we receive the absolution, God proclaims this to us. To me, there is always real forgiveness of sins. I don't know how, but there is real forgiveness of sins. Or, well, I have this freedom of my hands.

Joyful heart. And I feel that I love the whole world. And this is my chance with my conscious heart and my life. Before, during this conference, I think, I'm very curious.

Elena, I'm going to ask for forgiveness because of my wrong thoughts that you are the most loving person in the world. It's the Holy Spirit who changes my heart through the gospel of forgiveness and I'm like a little boy happy. With regard to the consolation, and that's what Luther says, this is what I like also so much.

with regard to the consolation by the gospel that takes place between believers. Luther says, he gives instructions how you can comfort your brother or sister. Dear brother or sister, I know, guys, that you are timid and downcast because thou fearest the wrath and judgment of God due to thy sin. But do heed now and cheer up,

Be of good comfort and fearless for Christ, thy Lord and Savior, who has come for the sake of sinners to save them.

has commanded both those servants whose calling has led them to an official position as well as wherever needed anyone whosoever to act on his behalf and comfort another person and to declare in his name that a troubled person is free from his or her sins. I don't think that when

Thou hearest such a comforting message, accept it for yourself with joy and gratitude, just as if thou hast heard it from Christ himself. And it's from the Lutheran Church Gospel, when he's preaching of the gospel the first Sunday after Easter. I am sure that we all have also experienced it.

how the Holy Spirit of God responds by providing peace when we have been allowed, by using the Grace Gospel, to put away the sins that have troubled our conscience. And then, last paragraph or subtitle, A Tree and Its Fruits. The Holy Spirit influences the person within whom He abides,

The fruits of the Holy Spirit can be detected in him or her. The Apostle Paul writes about these fruits also. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. Against such there is no one.

Does it seem to us that we have pursued this kind of fruit, or do we feel exactly the opposite? How do you brothers and sisters feel? Do we see that there is so much love and joy in long-suffering? God knows the fruits. And lemon tree brings only lemons. Apple tree brings only lemons.

Sooner or later. And apple tree can give lemons, I think. I have one lemon tree in my front yard. Come to see this. Some small lemons have been, not yet lemon pie time, but maybe later.

But I trust that one day. I think that you share this same feeling that I have. Many times I see more other fruits which come from my flesh. Does it...

Does it seem to us that we have first produced this kind of fruit, or do we feel exactly the opposite? The Spirit of God and our place battle within each one of us, as the Apostle Paul in that same epistle points out. He also urges us to allow the Spirit to guide thy life.

And the King James Version renders it as, walk in the Spirit. The Bible also tells us that the Spirit of God may depart from a person and an evil spirit will be able to replace it. Regarding the disobedient King Saul, we are told,

But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord gathered him. Sin has separated Saul from God. Sin always separates us. Unforgiving sin separates us from God. As we have a long time being taught. Sin

The Spirit of God can also return into a person through the grace of forgiveness and the adornment of Jesus. For example, King David. He received the grace of repentance.

As humans, we, unlike God, are unable to see into the heart of another person. And it's good. We are not God. We don't have eyes of God. But we can still detect the fellowship of the Holy Spirit.

That's my emotion. I don't know you so well that we feel sometimes, just as Jim told in the morning devotion, that when we go to Togo or Finland or I came to the US, I can feel the same spirit. It's a mystery to me how I feel that we have this connection. I can't

Sometimes I don't know it so much. I doubt many, many matters, but you can feel this. And what the Bible says about that in Romans 8.18, that the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

Do we go to ask for other churches that, do you feel that I'm a believer? No, never. I know many of my former co-workers that they have this question. Do I believe in your mind? If you've got questions, you answer.

But I didn't have this question because of the Spirit who says that you are children of God. On the other hand, in His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus, to warn about false teachers, tells us that it is possible to identify such from their fruits. We can't see the hearts, but we can see the fruits. He states,

Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. In the Epistle to the Galatians, the Apostle Paul writes more about the different types of evil fruit, which are the rites of the flesh.

Now the words of Christ are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, sedition, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, rebellions, as such like, of the which I tell you

before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And this same is in Finnish translation, it's quite similar. Immorality, unchasteness, lewdness, idolatry, witchcraft, in mighty quarrels, jealously, anger, scheming,

envy, binge drinking, wild partying, and other such behavior. I use both. Sometimes some translation tells it more clear. But of course, we can use all those. We cannot doubt.

We cannot laugh just like in the life of an individual child of God. Journeying in God's kingdom, dealing with shared issues, discussions, supporting, caretaking, and bearing one another. We yearn for an

for and can feel secure when the Holy Spirit can work in us and through us. Oh, how many prayers it has sent to God that the Holy Spirit would lead today us and give us minds to speak. Rigidness, standing in opposition, pride and trivialization of others cause anxiety and fear.

It is the good to remember the Bible's teaching, love worketh no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the love. In fact,

God's children are known by the love for one another, and we can nurture and care for this love through the power of the Holy Spirit, and by faith we are beneficiaries of the greatest love of all, Jesus Christ, who is full of grace and truth.

Brothers and sisters, when I came to serve, I have had many doubts and those thoughts of Prophet John, but I trust that it could be with brothers and sisters in faith. Because of my many, I can't say many, doubts and fears, my own sinfulness, I ask that you can hear.

there's water

he's on a little far

Okay, let's face our own. It's been nice to be here this morning already. We've had a lot of good food here. At the beginning I want to thank Brother Huddy for willing to serve us here and I have to say that

rejoices at the presentation that's been given here already this morning and it's my prayer that i'm sure it's been your prayer that god would give us abilities to speak the thoughts that are on our hearts and minds this morning but as i was listening to that presentation it came to mind a recent happening

probably three weeks ago or so we had a little presentation in brocade over to the youth and i had used a presentation from some years ago and the brother that wrote the presentation happens to be here i seen him that was probably from 1980 but not certain but it was written by don lati and that was given to me to present and i did and after the presentation i was visiting with um

to the youth in the dining hall. And one of the youth, I didn't know who she was. I thought she was from a different congregation. I'd never seen her before. So she was sitting at the same table. I asked who she was, and she had told me. And the name, I didn't recognize the name. So I asked where she was, and she said she's from Gallaudet. And I was a little surprised, maybe. She said that she had been given grace to repent some time ago.

And it was nice, and of course I welcomed her. But what she said came to my mind as we were concluding this presentation. She said, I have never heard in my life what I heard tonight.

I'm sure many thoughts went through your minds as you listened this morning. Many, many thoughts came through my own mind. I don't remember them all, but

I want you guys to have the opportunity to speak what's on your hearts and minds this morning so that we can all be edified. So, Steve Lyle. My heart says amen. Amen.

Certainly it's good to be here to do this presentation. God certainly opened the word through our brother, Huddy. My thoughts had turned in Greg's presentation to that portion where the disciples were debating about who is the greatest in the kingdom. And we know that Jesus picked up at little

greatest when we approach when we think of the Holy Spirit and we think of being a believer and we think of our sinfulness when we approach the throne of grace

Are we approaching it as a little child, that we are humbling ourselves and putting all of our own understanding and our own thoughts that we don't have, that we are putting everything on that throne that we want to have us taken care of?

Or are we saying that I want to believe, but yet I would want to give up this or give up that thought? I know my dad, shortly before he had passed, he had related a story of his own

Solomon, he had been deceived and went into heresy, the last heresy. He was given that grace to repent, but before he had done that, he had these questions that he wanted answered. And he had written them down and thought that he knows he needs to believe

but yet he wants his questions answered. But when the Spirit of God infected in him through the Gospel, those questions no longer became questions. And he was able to, he completely forgot about those. I've also had a similar experience when I visited

with one that was troubled by sin. They had questions that they wanted answered. And before we started the discussion, the gospel was preached. And the gospel is such that it takes those questions away.

The discussion never happened about the questions. He had forgotten all of them right then and there. That is the work of the gospel of forgiveness of sins. When we humble ourselves as a little child, then we can put away all matters.

When we approach God's Word and we want to discuss or we wonder about matters, are we coming with our own knowledge? Or are we gathering together and asking, how do others see this?

As was so correctly pointed out in the presentation, that there are a diversity of gifts. Not one person in God's kingdom has all the answers. But when the Holy Spirit works in the congregation, we are given those answers through different gifts of the brothers and sisters that gather there.

In coming here today, I myself feel the weakest. Can I believe my sense of doubt is right? David, can you hear me? If you can raise your hands during the speaking terms, if you can, I'll try to get a list here of people. Right here in the middle.

It's peace, everybody. I join with the previous brothers here. Also at the presentation, I say amen. And we can see, even there, how they aren't men's words, but they're God's word. God, through his spirit, here teaching and guiding

And I have often thought of here on the past times, you guys, here in especially this Minnesota area, have had such great spiritual battles. It's made me pause and think of when I was growing up there in Toronto.

And we had battles. And I see a lot of the same things where this demanding answers, looking back at the past. And I think of those times in Toronto

And we look at how even the congregation itself, it didn't increase in size. The people moved away. But then the gospel was able to be preached. And not just preached, but truly taken to the heart.

Those other matters weren't important. It didn't matter who was right and who was wrong. I look at Toronto now. We're a young congregation. God has so richly blessed us

We have unity. One-mindedness. And we have growth. This is what God can do. We don't need to worry about our own pride. I saw it in my own

home there, where I grew up even. Perhaps there have been wrongdoings. We don't need to dwell on it. We just put sin away. It's a personal faith. We preach the gospel. And God can bless all these demands and these

seeking for understanding to be put aside. That's God's kingdom. There, that is unity and one-mindedness and grace abounds. Thank you. President Mackey was next.

Brett from Phoenix. Greetings from there. I just wanted to make a little gem out of how he almost covered everything but creation. But actually, how he did, it did cover everything because Brother Kim Malek reassured me when I was asked to speak that

It's a simple matter that the whole Bible is about Jesus. The Old Testament promise of His coming, the New Testament of His life and His teachings. And in this presentation were the teachings of our Savior. So this teaching, or this presentation, included that

And those words that stuck out to me was we want to put on that mind of Christ and have that love that God has given to us. Have that love one for another. And that verse there speaks of supporting, caretaking, and bearing one another.

I'm going to ask the brothers and sisters if I can give that a gospel. Okay, this will be pretty easy for me. We're probably not even ten minutes to lunch here, so this is good. But it's Laura's open for anyone that wants to try to say anything.

As he said, Trent Simonson from Saskatoon. I'll try to talk and I guess I'll say what's on my mind. I'll try to not be emotional. As many of you know, my mother passed away this week.

Some of you, you know, I even wonder myself, I've wondered, you know, why did I come? And here even, you know, I probably shouldn't be with my family, but I'm here, and maybe I understand partly why that my mother passed away, but I have another mother on this earth, and it's the congregation.

And I really feel that that mother is here today. So, you know, that's really it, that mother through the Holy Spirit. And if I lose that mother, I'm no longer in faith. And I'm confident that that mother will not die as my earthly mother did. And what I thought through my mind is, I recently heard how

The question, one question that can be asked and I guess should be asked, that do you believe? When I'm asked do I believe, I know the doubts come. But the question for me is, do I want to believe?

and i i do in this morning i want to believe can i establish thank you

First of all, I must say I have very little understanding of these matters. I took the mic and I asked, can I hear the gospel for my own sins and doubts? Also, Brother Hattie's example of a faithful little boy, I think back to my own childhood, if anyone knows

It was difficult at times, but we were there in our home believing. I remember as a little boy the gospel being preached and being able to freely believe the gospel and make myself heavy trials and the hardships of this life and the things that were going on in our home. As I've gotten older in my heart,

the gospel. I hope in that same way as I did in my younger days, but it seems that it's constant now. I hope that that would be the prayer of each and every one who has come here today, that we would all be given this smile when we try

looking for the instruction, looking for forgiveness from God's kingdom. Thank you. Eric Metello from Alaska. I have to say my heart and spirit said amen to that presentation.

I would say there's not a single sentence in there that I disagree with. And yet, it speaks about serious matters that are taking place in God's kingdom today. I'm sure we're all aware, and the reason so many have gathered here

is to discuss some of these situations. For example, congregations not using ministers that are speaking in other congregations. I can say for myself, in the last few years, I have noticed a different voice

the good shepherd. A voice that I personally cannot follow and cannot say I believe that way. In some of the congregations I can be safe to say have had these same thoughts and in some cases had to take care of some of their speakers and

Relieve them from their duties for causing confusion or dividing the flock. And yet there's a congregation where it's probably safe to say at least the board is of the same mind and the same spirit as the speakers.

because they're either unwilling or unable to care for their speakers. So other boards and other congregations have had to, with much prayer and much doubt and much discussion, have had to come to this decision that we cannot have these speakers that speak with a different voice

confuse the weak sheep in our congregation here. And it is our prayer and desire that we could find mutual peace and love and unity. But like we heard, it cannot be done through compromise or some external agreement or through the might of man.

but it can only be done through that work of the Holy Spirit. If that Spirit is able to soften those hearts, and not even to give them understanding, but if it can simply humble them to obey and be obedient and listen to the voice of the Mother Congregation,

And I would like to hear what some of the other thoughts are around these matters. Whether you agree or disagree, there is freedom in God's kingdom to discuss. But on my own part, feeling sinful and lacking and making many mistakes, I ask if I can hear that gospel for myself. The Lord is with you.

Okay, let's sing song number 434 and we'll continue our discussion.

With the gaze of Jesus near, together we have gathered here. Thou dost provide our every need.

the food we now receive now from this table as we leave our praises lord

True souls grow weary in the strife.

I feel like... This cannot go down this direction. It's going to go. Take that direct representation and use it again. Representation is different.

You know, Hunter's presentation, for the most part, I don't know if I agree with all of it. I think for the most part.

Right on. The only thing I didn't like is when a believer has unforgiven sins. And I thought a good question would be today to discuss is, does a believer have unforgiven sins before God when he's in faith? I know, but the way he said it, he said, well, we have unforgiven sins. Thank you.

Yeah, no, I understand. But it would be a good thing to discuss. No, we fall into sin all the time. Every day we sin all the time. Exactly. Yeah. But we believe at every moment that our sins are forgiven. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because John Euless said that when we are believing, our sins are forgiven. Isn't that simple? Don't we believe that way? And then Christ teaches us to endeavor in all the other things. It's that simple, this believing. Exactly. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. No, no. You're unbelievable. You should go ask him. You don't need to go ask him. You guys can hang around here and just...

If words are given talk to the matters themselves. The point that came up to me when he made that comment is that in Huddy's presentation, is that edifying the congregation to go that way? Yeah, I know. Harry's presentation really got it.

I didn't see so many here. If you haven't had a chance to sign them, they're there.

One comment, there's one speaker, speaking turn that's lined up immediately here as we get into this.

I want to share my own thoughts from the presentation this morning, how nice it was. We were visiting at lunch. Our faith was like a jigsaw puzzle. There's hundreds and hundreds of pieces, and every line that came out in that presentation, we knew exactly where it fit in the construct of how we believed. You could grasp it and say, yeah, that fits, and it felt good.

I said amen to that one. I've got a pen here to take names, and I would ask Don Lutte is the first one on the list, so we can start with him, but feel free to raise your hands as we go up. Don Lutte up here.

Maybe I'm not meant to be up here. I started to say that when I see who I'm speaking to.

Anyway, when I gave my name, I said, I don't know what I'm going to say, but I feel that I need to say something here today. First of all, I would start off by saying that the presentation that we heard this morning touched my spirit. And I say, Amen. Amen.

It covered everything. I'll get back to that a little later. But first of all, it warms my heart to see so many of you dear brothers and even sisters here today. And every time I've been at these meetings, it has warmed my heart to know that.

God's kingdom is still here and it has a future as long as God keeps this world going. But when I come here today, as most of you know, I lost my spouse, my beloved life's companion.

And that has, perhaps, caused me to even think of my faith much more closely. Because I want to meet her again. And it's my hope and prayer that the devil, the enemy of the souls, will not be able to deceive me.

We know we are living in a treacherous time, as we even saw in the presentation and heard this morning, that there shall be heresies among you. And at the very beginning here, I need to say that.

I feel my own wretchedness, my own importance, my own weakness, my own temptations. Like we heard this morning, each one of us have our own. And I struggle with that. And I need to hear it. I can't believe all this is.

your brothers and sisters, no matter how old you get. It seems like they even perhaps get worse as time goes on. And then besides, as most of you know, those who are speakers, that in addition to the temptations that every child of God has, we have our own temptations in addition to that.

But when I come here today, I was 41 years old at the time of the last Harris. Some of you aren't 41 yet. And I have to say that I have a lot of experience since that I've gone through during that time.

I moved from the farm in Kelty when I was 16 years old to Detroit, Michigan. And I wasn't in Detroit very long. And as a young boy, I could see that there were some problems in the congregation. But I, with my own human mind, I started to say, it's just between families.

But as time went on, it became very clear, as we know what happened at the last heresy, was that leniency that was working. And it was not only leniency, but there were other issues. And about four years ago here, somebody brought up and reminded me of that.

spiritual fornication that took place then where they were, you might say, greeting the kippah-conduction ball. And then also there was a case where some congregations were asking for help from the mission board and they just simply answered that the water settle the dirt will go to the bottom.

Well, we saw that the dirt didn't go to the bottom. And we can see that it's not going to the bottom even in our time. I was just a young boy when I wanted to live with my grandparents. And it was difficult. The heresy had been just not too long before that.

Look, and my grandfather, Laho's brother, was a very adamant supporter of that tikkakuntala. And every time he came over, he would start an argument, especially when my uncles would come to Detroit on vacation. And they would always, and he would go around with a Bible under his arm, holding scripture.

and trying to support East End. So I remember a lot of these discussions and especially as a young boy I sat on the wood block next to the kitchen stove where the company came and they would be talking about these things. So of course I didn't really comprehend all of those things. But then later in life, after we were married,

I visited some elder believers in Detroit that had served on the local board there, and they explained to me a lot of these issues. And they also told me, he also told me that, and this was long before the heresy of 73, this was in the 50s, late 50s, and early 60s,

that there was dissension already in the Detroit congregation way back when the Detroit church was dedicated in 1941. So he filled me in on a lot of things.

The reason I mention some of these things at this time is because I am seeing a repetition of some of the stuff I have heard from way back. I see a repetition of what took place in the Kippur movement. I see a repetition of what took place in the Tarla heresies.

I don't know much about the Bolani heresy because it didn't affect our area, but I have read about it. And this new phrase that they have coined, continual forgiveness, is nothing more than a birth from that Bolani heresy.

We know, and I will go into depth on it, that God's grace is every day with us. And we can believe every day. But, as we heard in the presentation, and we have heard so many times, that there is the endeavor of faith. We need to put those sins away that trouble and bother our conscience.

So I won't go into depth on a lot of these things, but I just want to touch briefly on these things. And actually it troubles me that these things are

Not going away. And why aren't they going away? We heard him on his presentation this morning at the very beginning. Why? Because they have a misconception or a wrong understanding about the Holy Spirit.

I'll give an example. First of all, I'm glad that he used the example of the Anastasia Creed, which I have read many times, where we cannot separate God, we cannot separate Jesus or the Holy Spirit. They are three in one, which I'm sure we all understand. But then when it comes to the congregation,

And the word, you cannot separate them from the training of God. This little document that we all have probably seen by now, that was referred to, perhaps I shouldn't use this word, but I call it a document of garbage.

It had some facts in it which were correct, but there were many distortions. And the thing that struck my eye on it was about the elevation of the Holy Spirit above the Word of God.

The Bible, as we all know, is the highest authority by which all matters are discussed, decided, and judged. But as we heard in the presentation, you have to have the key to the Bible, and that is the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit does not open, the Bible is not understood.

So that means that we cannot separate the Word of God from the Holy Spirit, nor the congregation, because the congregation is holy, of which Christ is the head, as we heard so clearly in that presentation.

In some of the meetings that have been held in the past, there have been statements that have been said that the Holy Spirit was not there, the Holy Spirit didn't speak. Today we have gathered here and I'm sure that my desire has been that God would be here through His Holy Spirit.

And I would have to say that what I have heard so far, it has answered to my spirit, that the Holy Spirit is truly here. But we need to get to the core of the issues. This is the place we need to discuss them. As in so many meetings that I have been in the past,

We have always encouraged the members to speak, speak their mind, speak their heart. And if we are found wrong, what a perfect place to be correct. Because we are in God's kingdom. We are in the midst of Christ. We are there where God is present, where Christ is present, the Holy Spirit is present.

the conversation we could say is present. So dear, I would encourage you who have a different view on things, about the best way I can describe it, to speak up so that we can understand where you're coming from. And if you are wrong,

What a perfect place, as I said, to be corrected. Because this confusion that has been caused, it's not only in the last year or two, it's been going on for a long time. I could say perhaps more than ten years there has been concern

amongst many of the believers of how things were going and of some speakers. But God has allowed things to happen. And we have seen where God has taken action through His Holy Spirit through the congregation

I have, since my wife's death, I have had the opportunity to attend a number of meetings. I attended a meeting in Rockford. I attended two meetings in Minneapolis. And I was saddened by many of the speeches. It seems like

by the, you know, being open here, and I'll say that by the pastor of the Minneapolis congregation, I was sitting right behind him at the initial meeting, for instance, when Jared Jussel and the chairmen brought out the issues, the doctrinal issues that the board had agreed to, and I couldn't believe what I saw.

He challenged Jared on every one of them and with a pointing of his finger. I was discussing just a few moments ago during lunch with another speaker brother where we discussed that if there would be any question about our preaching,

Would we be such that we would be battling to retain our speaking position? No, we would gladly sit down so that we would not cause discussion or confusion in the congregation in God's kingdom. So why should we be concerned if some speaker brothers are taken down

They are being taken down because the congregation has been concerned. And I would say that even in Brainerd, we, I don't like the word disinvite, but we ended up disinviting one of them. And it was a struggle with the board. They didn't know what to do, but the congregation members kept asking, are we going to have so and so?

And then there was finally a revelation that took place and it made it very clear. I'm not on the board but I attend all the meetings so I know what was happening. So we need to discuss these issues so that we can

Come to some understanding, but as we saw in the presentation, we cannot begin to compromise. We cannot begin to try to take the best of each. But we need to have unity of the spirit. That's all I can think of at this time. Sam Royko is next.

It's been good to be here and listen to the opening devotion and the presentation. My heart rejoiced and spirit said amen to what we heard. That was the voice of the Good Shepherd. I also wanted to follow up on our brother Eric Matilla's comments right before lunch.

Thank God that God gave him the words to speak to the issue, one of these issues. We heard in the presentation about the kingdom of God, the congregation of God is, as we see in the discussion point, it is the body of Christ. It is one, it is united with the head.

Paul writes to the Corinthians in the chapter we hear, the 12th chapter that we heard from in the presentation later on in that chapter about how the eye cannot say to the hand that I have no need of thee, and neither the foot to the eye that I have no need of thee. That there be no schism in the body, but they have all the same care one for another.

A dear brother in Elk River there was relating a visit he had had, and if he wants to clarify and expand on it, I would be happy to let him know how in our own bodies, if we get a cut on a finger or if we sprain our ankle or have a wound on a member of the body,

We take care of that. We bandage it. We don't use it so that that member can heal. We are in the presentation of how sin separates us from God, and when sin is unforgiven, it will lead us away. We sing in a song of Zion, wounds of conscience left untended.

always lead into the world. And now it appears that there has been a wound on the body of Christ. And all the body members wanting to have the same care one

desire to amputate that part of the body or cut it off, but rather that we would care for it, apply medicine, and the healing balm of Gilead, the salve of the gospel, to care for that. But my sorrow has been that as

As our brother Eric pointed out, that it seems that that particular member has said that I have no need of the care of the other members of the body. And this leads to then that third point from the bottom. Is it by faith or understanding?

He writes in a book that he wrote in 1956 of the early phases of Finnish Christianity. And another brother was telling me that he had found this part in there that when we read it, we just marveled. When the believers went to visit with those who had gone into the new awakening heresy,

The representatives of the heresy asked and requested, could you please show us in scripture where we have become doctrinally wrong, and then we will repent. Those that went in heresy asked that question. And the believers' response was, we have told you.

The letter to the Hebrews in the beginning of that 11th chapter says, through faith we understand. A dear brother in a sermon, an old sermon, spoke of this, how the common response of those who have gone into the world say, help me or get me to understand my fall and then I will repent.

And that's backwards to what Scripture says. First repent, then God can give understanding. As we saw in that last slide on how we have that same love one for another, it is true that it is that first fruit of the Spirit by which we are known as Jesus is that you have that love one for another.

But that same love also, as Moses writes in Leviticus, you shall not hate your brother. You shall not suffer sin upon your brother, but rather rebuke him. And that that love of Christ is also to speak of what is right and wrong. As

We know from the story of Cain and Abel, Cain asks, am I my brother's keeper? And as we heard in the opening devotion and as we heard in this presentation about the unity of the spirit and the unity of the congregation of Christ, and I wanted to ask myself, am I part of that unity? It is clear that it is united.

Because that's where a sinner finds forgiveness and grace and help and hears the voice of the shepherd. Can I believe my own sins forgive me? Is there a comment on the left side here? I don't know everybody's names.

You can call them if you're ready. I'm Jared Hood from Preston Valley. I was asked to relay greetings from my congregation there. I was recently asked to serve on the board and I had a few thoughts. I made some notes.

because I wanted to try to be as clear as possible and not get too confused. I was encouraged by several people to speak because of my personal experiences. When I listen to this presentation and how they put it together, I have to agree that I can say I'm into it. There was nothing in there in this presentation that I couldn't personally agree with.

It's the same message that I heard growing up as a child, although I don't understand the stuff in any of the issues of heresy, or 73, or even the issues of the age. I don't understand a lot of doctrinal points.

I can be honest and say that I've been pretty poor when it comes to reading the Bible. I know very little of it. And so I can't comment on any of that, on doctrinal issues, but I can comment on what I hear when I hear the voice of the Spirit. I had, in my life, much like I've heard Eric Mandela relate in his sermons, I wasn't believing for, I think it was around seven years. I lost faith when I was a

Teenager. And there were several points here that I wanted to make relating to that. There's a recent article I read in The Voice of Zion written by somebody that repented out of the world. And the interesting part, much like that person, while I was in the world, I attended many different churches. I think my wife and I went to seven different

You know, we'd go to one for several months or something, and in that time they were searching, or I should say more so my wife was searching, maybe not so much me at that time, but my wife was searching. We went to all these different churches. We heard many things that were doctrinally correct from my limited understanding. A lot of things that were said, the words that were said,

were similar in some ways at some of these churches to things that I had heard growing up as a child of God. And so it's interesting that when we talk about the Holy Spirit, it's not necessarily the words that are spoken or maybe these little points that we're discussing, but it's the Holy Spirit that leads and guides in the congregation. And then...

this portion especially grabbed me in Huddie's presentation where it was talking about, seek ye first the kingdom of God and all else will be added. And that point really touched me because that was a comment or a portion of scripture that my dad read to me when I repented. And so that was close to me especially. I was talking to a couple different people about it and

When I was not believing, it's interesting, you know, because I've also talked to a few people that have said, when you're... How can these people be so confused? Why are there these questions? Why is this so difficult to understand? When you read or listen to Javi's presentation, why is this hard to understand? It says, amen to the heart, how can you argue with it? But the problem is...

And I understand it, I think. Maybe I don't. I don't know. When I wasn't believing, I can tell you I could not see the beauty of God's kingdom. I did not see it. I heard people talking about it. I took a note here so I wouldn't get this screwed up. I could not see the beauty of God's kingdom or that good simple message that was enough to believe. The message wasn't different from

from what i had heard growing up as a child or or and it wasn't different from what i hear now when i go to church or when the when i agree with something that's been said like this presentation at the time when i wasn't believing i wasn't given the understanding

Or I guess my eyes were closed to the kingdom of God at that time. It wasn't because of any lacking in the part of the words or the presentation of the speaker brother or somebody that had said something to me at that time. There was no lacking in the words. My eyes were closed that I can honestly say that due to my own sin and unbelief.

And so now, this presentation today is sufficient for me as a child of God, but I can assure you that as complete as this was, when I was not believing, this would have not been sufficient for me and nothing would have, there were still questions that I would have had. I remember thinking many of the questions that we've read in this recent document that came on, a few of the things, I remember having some of those questions when I wasn't believing.

And the interesting part about it is where that text talks, seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all else will be added. We reach the point in life where I was given the grace to believe. And it's interesting how you said it, even in his presentation, that those questions went away. I've had no desire to ask those questions. Those things haven't even been a thought for me. They haven't been an issue.

it's it's good enough for me to simply believe the interesting another interesting point that i wanted to make was there were many times when i wasn't believing that i wished i could believe but i wasn't given the grace i wasn't given any understanding i wasn't given the ability to go and ask for forgiveness and even you know it there was just nothing there my eyes were close to it and so sometimes i think when

We're discussing these things if there's certain issues, if there's points that are causing confusion. When a person is not believing truly as a child of God, their eyes are closed. I think that's an important thing to understand. God strips away that understanding, and sin covers the conscience.

With this presentation and a lot that has been said here, everything I've heard so far, my spirit agrees with. Many of the brothers have expressed how their spirit says amen to this presentation. And I guess my question would be is if someone is finding themselves unable to accept, they're unable to say amen or they're questioning this spirit, the voice of

the Holy Spirit in the congregation, at that time, based on my own experience, it's time to assess or start considering the condition of your heart and understand that if you are given, if you are in this understanding or you're

I guess I don't know how you would put it. Maybe if you're not believing. If you're not believing correctly, are you believing? At that point, if God gives the grace to repent from unbelief or repent and believe again, that understanding will be given. And I guess those are some of the thoughts that I have when faith is lost through accumulated sin.

On the conscience, understanding is also stripped away. I guess if there's anything I've said that is confusing or I'm incorrect in any way, I would like to be corrected. I don't want to walk with the congregation of God. And I feel that this is it. I'd like to also hear that gospel.

Thanks, Jared. Can we go to Dean Rorschach back there? We've got five or six names on the list, and that 15 minutes of speech will be lunchtime or dinnertime. Break time. Just an editorial. I do feel my weaknesses and failings are knocked out.

It's my desire to remain in God's kingdom and my desire to serve God's kingdom as I have been asked. I had an experience a couple weeks ago. Well, first off, I want to greet you all here from Ecuador. This is Steve Lyle, and I just got back from there a couple weeks ago. I want to reassure everyone here, too, that those people there believe the same as us and live by the same gospel that we live by.

And just shortly after I got home, I had an early morning phone call and the caller on the other end of the line told me that it was from the visa fraud department and they wanted me to start engaging with them in a conversation regarding possible access, wrongful

And so my spidey sense was tingling and I didn't know if I should hang up or not, but I kind of went on with the call. And through the course of the call I'd get suspicious and then he'd say something to me that had a ring of truth to it. And I would listen to him and we'd talk about it a bit and then again I'd start getting suspicious and I'd distance myself from what he was trying to get me to do.

The long and short of it was that fortunately that guy got tired of me and he hung up on me. He was a fraudster. And I was thinking about that call. And the greatest fraudster that we know is the devil, the enemy of souls. And he's always phoning us. He's trying to get through to us. And I think now in God's kingdom there's a few people that have answered that call that haven't hung up the phone when they should have.

He listened to that voice from the enemy of souls, and he's come with a message that it sounds like it rings true. It sounds like it's teaching what God's kingdom teaches. But there's a little bit there that doesn't sound right, and the Holy Spirit warns us. It gets us fighting since tingling.

But there are some who continue to hang on to their receiver and listen to that call and keep getting dragged further and further in. To a point where that fraudster has gotten into your bank account. He has gotten into your heart. And he has taken away the Holy Spirit that guides and directs.

And I personally feel that there is an incorrect spirit in God's kingdom. And I don't think I'm alone on this. There's many that are very concerned about the way the situation is here in the kingdom today with certain people. And when we heard this presentation of how he's here this morning, I could only say amen to what was presented there.

But I harkened back to that letter that came by email a few days ago. And I read through it and I, with a troubled heart, I forwarded that letter on to the members of our board here in Dunlane. And I made it clear that for me, I could not endorse this letter, but yet it attempted to address

that are out there today and I think it's so clear what has been taught us here today that when the Holy Spirit isn't there and the keys aren't there to open up God's word that we can't open that word and as much as it's tried to explain how we think about matters when we don't have the Holy Spirit we can't get through

There's been talk for years on matters and there's been those who have been trying to explain how they think that it's different or how they see it. I've been a party to being in on those discussions and I get confused. I can't understand because the harder they try to get me to understand, the less I understand. It becomes more and more murky.

And it's so evident that human understanding and human reasoning can't do this for us. We need that Holy Spirit to open up what God's Word teaches. And so these points that were brought out in that letter

to me they're a symptom of a deeper problem and that deeper problem is that the living faith is not correct in the heart we've been told um i i harken back to that story that harry told about the man who came to him with a list of questions and

and that when these questions are answered, then I can believe or I can put my sin away. But it's always been pointed out that when one puts sin away first and believes sin forgiven, then those questions become useless. They're no longer important. They're not needed because the most important question has been answered.

I think when a person finds themselves in a place in God's kingdom that they're questioning what is being taught and they're questioning what is being preached, they should question their own faith. They should question their own understanding. They should question matters in their own heart.

Then why am I feeling this way? Why am I feeling questioning towards what is taught in God's Kingdom? Why am I feeling belligerence to God's Kingdom? Why am I feeling that I have a higher understanding than God's Kingdom? One thing that puzzles me, it's been brought up here a couple of times in this presentation and otherwise, the matter of heresy.

We know that a heresy is a separation from God's kingdom. We know that God causes this separation. He causes this heresy so He can cleanse His kingdom. He allows it to happen. Why is the thought then that perhaps God's kingdom is going into heresy and that there's one or two or a few that are remaining? It just doesn't seem right to me. It doesn't seem correct. It feels that there's a contrary spirit working in God's kingdom

and it's working against god it was good a good thought here that was brought up that we are not battling individuals but we are battling principalities we are battling sin we are battling the enemy of soul and as i said in the beginning he has reached out to all of us he's made those phone calls to every one of us by the grace of god

Most of us would be able to hang up that phone call and cop the line, but there are some that are still hanging on to that receiver and listening to the enemy's message. Thanks, Dean. Ron Simonson is next.

as was mentioned in the beginning of the day, or perhaps in the beginning of that presentation, that many prayers have risen to the Heavenly Father, that he would, through his word, open the hearts

of those who desire to believe. And I also felt that he would speak into my heart and I asked him, can I believe my sins? I was

thinking of how is it that I believe? And how is it that I have believed? And how is this presentation, how would I say, how is that presentation

fortifying what I believe. And when I was a child, I grew up in a believing home. And I was taught about sin, how dangerous it is. And how there is a need

what was it says as forgiveness says or or my her message was very simple was a message child

And we all heard this presentation this morning and I can say from my heart what is spoken this morning is not varied from that which I was taught and believed as a small child.

I did not know all these portions of Scripture which Ali put into that presentation. Neither did I have to know all those portions of Scripture. But we can say that that was in that presentation.

more like the trial which I have heard many speeches from your brothers after that presentation was given and I

and I even thought in this way that God has given so many gifts into his kingdom to explain matters of faith and perhaps I am even through the flesh sometimes jealous

those yes your brothers and sisters I is there remains I'll you know I'm you believe he's simple precepts a reasons that are complicated

that we as God's children can believe the gospel of the forgiveness of sins that Jesus has died for our sins and through his death and resurrection we have a whole of eternal life in heaven

This is the essence of our faith. This is what we are striving for, your dear brothers and sisters. And so let us not complicate matters. Let us believe in simplicity.

of faith in the kingdom of God. That gift that God has given us. This gift. And if we continue to hold on to this gift, one day it will lead us to be sure as to heaven. And again, can I believe my sin?

Okay, there's Greg Jacobson is next, and then on deck is Mark Davison, so we can try to run the mics in between. Mark's in the back.

Craig Jacobson from Glendale. I'd like to also relay those greetings of love and God's peace from our congregation down in Arizona and also to confirm that there were also those prayers from our congregation that this meeting would progress as God sees fit. I take this might with trembling hands and sweaty palms and I want to first of all ask that can I have

The reason why we wanted to take the mic was because we just recently had our western area board meeting and there was, as I'm sure you all know, there were two board, LLC board positions that were opened up for discussion for that area.

And I believe during the process of a few months prior to the meeting, there was, I think, maybe a dozen or maybe more names that were brought forth to the Western Area meeting to discuss and come up with a name to present to the LSE. And I believe that this is how the Holy Spirit works. We had discussed...

In the afternoon I think it was opened up for discussion on what names would be brought to the LLC. And one name for the at-large position was presented and discussion went around the room and everybody agreed to it.

And then there was a comment that was brought up and once again the discussion went around the room and I believe there was 50 or more, a few more people that had attended that meeting. And once again everybody agreed to that name that was brought forth. And then another comment was brought up and once again it went around the room.

And once again, there was only one name that was brought forth out of all of those names presented before the meeting took place. And it was very clear to me that from out of that discussion, there were no other names brought forth. It was a unanimous decision.

The Holy Spirit works in that way where it connects the believing hearts together through some mystery that we don't totally understand nor will we totally understand. But it connects those hearts of believers together to come up with that unanimous decision because a lot of those brothers came from the Northwest and throughout the Southern West and then of course in Arizona and California.

And we all didn't talk to each other specifically about these names that came up. So how else could it have been that in that meeting there was an enmity on that name brought forth? And I think that's the same way today with some of these discussions around these dear brothers who are struggling, that the Holy Spirit speaks from heart to heart. And if we listen to the Holy Spirit, it speaks

It's not confusing. And if we allow the Holy Spirit to speak in our hearts and we listen to it, we can accept it and we can be obedient to the way that the Holy Spirit speaks to us. And then I wanted to relay another story, and this one is on a personal level, on faith itself.

And it's going to be, I'm going to open myself up a little bit to vulnerability here on my masculinity, but I'm just going to tell you that I have a couple of boys with type 1 diabetes. And the disease of type 1 diabetes, they rely on insulin to keep them alive. And when our first, when my first, my oldest boy was diagnosed with it,

I was amazed at, I mean, he was seven years old and I was amazed at the naivety of myself and the rest of my family and how this would change our family. And part of the process is, as a parent to a child that doesn't know how to take care of itself with this disease, is that we have to manage that disease intensively. And so,

One of the jobs that I took on as a parent in this is to check the boys after everybody has gone to sleep at night. It's typically around midnight because I know that I can go several hours through the night of sleep before we have to worry about the diabetic issues that might pop up.

And I was always amazed in the evenings around midnight when I would check these boys' blood sugars. They were not affected by it like I am as an adult. In the dim light of the room, I find myself with tears rolling down my face. And self-pity and anger and frustration.

wondering why this has to be me with this type of a trial. But these boys, they had no idea that my fears would be that these boys would wake up, or I would wake up in the morning and these boys would not be with us anymore. And I think that's the simplicity of

We can believe that our sins are forgiven. We can believe that when we ask for the gospel to be preached to us, and those sins are washed away, we can lay our heads down on our pillows at night, just like my boys do, without a worry that we would die without attaining our heavenly glory.

Thanks, Greg. I'll bring Greg's mic up to Steve. Call him in here. Yeah, I'm Mark Davidson from Seattle. I'm hesitant to speak, but I'll just share the thoughts that were on my mind for other comments. Many prayers and greetings from Seattle. I don't know. You get many texts when you're, I don't know, in my reluctance to come, but

Anyways, on this topic of this letter that was sent around, I guess, you know, it comes to an area and you're, do you send it around, do you not? So when I got it, I didn't want to send something that I shouldn't, so I bounced it off a couple letters in the area. And they said, yeah, you know, it's your, and I thought it might get discussed today, so I thought it would be good for those who are coming that had read it. So that letter from Phoenix, I mean,

you read it, and I think it brings up some valid points, not all of it, I don't think any of us agree with everything anybody writes, but the title of it, Confession of Faith, I think, at least for me, and I don't know the brothers who wrote it, nor do I know that many people, but if it is a true confession of faith for these two brothers, I think we want to be careful not to belittle it, or

or say that they can't share it. I don't know the exact reason it was written, but I think we have to be careful, because I'm sure most of Zion, or I think a lot of people in our area read the letter. So then it ups, it boards, whatever it says. It's no good, it's garbage.

trash for those others that read the letter and I create them doubts, you know, that we can have concerns even if we don't agree with it. It's still, it's an honest, heartfelt thought. Even now can I hear that gospel from my doubts. Go ahead, Steve, and then bring this mic up to Ben. You'll tell him.

First, I would say I feel my own poorness and sinfulness. Ask if you can forgive me for my sins. And I guess we're supposed to try to remember to mention Steve Cullinan from Bonnie Salloway or so. Welcome to all of you to be here. I certainly have enjoyed...

the opening devotion, the presentation, and so many beautiful speeches that show God's children how the Holy Spirit works in the hearts. Many have touched on different parts of the presentation and

I can remember many of those parts, but I've read so wholeheartedly, felt so uplifted to be able to listen to the same message of the gospel, the same message that has been teaching us throughout many years, the unchanging word of God, and how even here today, the power of the Spirit works.

But does each one of us here at this meeting listen to the Spirit that speaks? Do we have a fear to hear what God is teaching?

There have been different ones who have made very direct reference to some of the issues that are happening and some of the situations that are here. Some of those who seem to continue to have a defense for the position that they're in. I remember an example of visiting with some who were

Without faith in the world. And their comments were full of defense of their position. Full of questions of what they thought they had to understand. But when they received the grace of repentance, there were no more questions.

The gospel answered. The gospel gave comfort. The forgiveness of sins gave back assurance that nothing else mattered. And so we think even up there at a discussion point where it says, by faith or understanding. By faith is how we understand, is how we believe, is how we have hope of getting to heaven.

If we begin to add with our own understanding, are we starting to lose the preciousness and simplicity of the faith of the heart?

A little bit to touch on some of these current things that are going on, such as the topic that I've never quite understood how it's worked this way, to disinvite. But when there are questions about a brother and his speaking, I say to you, dear brothers, if you question my speaking and my serving, don't have me go to the pulpit.

I don't want to confuse God's congregation. Much less, I need your help to keep me on the narrow road of faith. And as we help one another, as we are heavenly escorts, yes, serving in love, but sometimes love is also a rebuke or to chastise.

But how does the flesh react? I think there's a certain board that seems that at least the majority, if not all, react with the flesh when there are questions being raised of all the speakers in that congregation.

If a board is not caring for their speakers and the servants of the word in their congregation, it has raised a comment to the point that a staff right now or other congregations have needed to ask those certain speakers to not come. So the board is not only in confusion, but not doing the work that they have been entrusted to do.

And so it is like a leaven that begins to leaven and begins to spread. Sometimes these issues of today have been talked about and said that they are Minnesota issues. But I think I would say be very careful when you say that. With today's communication, with today's transportation, these things spread.

fast. They spread easy. The enemy of Saul is working to try to put a wedge between God's congregation, in God's congregation between different children and trying to steal from his congregation.

In regards to this issue about disinviting speakers, there have been reference to a part of Corinthians, which I would have to look for it to remember properly, that has said that it has been cutting off of members of the body of Christ with asking speakers not to come to other congregations. But I think there also has been a wrong understanding when it has been brought out like that. It has been love. It has been caretaking.

But those who are supporting these wrong understandings are not listening to what the Spirit is saying. It is not a correct understanding to think that even to come out and question and try to help one another is a complete difference between cutting off

or extending love but again it is that you're there to hear what the spirit of god is saying in his congregation here has been the love of god speaking in this assembly again today many assemblies over the last few years have had such beautiful presentations

There have been meetings and camp events even where some of this group have said that the spirit wasn't even present at that meeting. How can a child of God say that?

Here today, it has touched my heart how the Spirit has answered into my heart of you dear brothers and your opening devotion, the presentation, and so many speeches already. But what kind of a heart could say that the Spirit wasn't present? Is there the Spirit of God in that heart any longer? If man begins to get

confused even in trying to gain understanding what's happening there. The self-righteousness of man, I think, is beginning to grow. Where man begins to take credit for what he has known, what he has learned.

versus, dear brother and sister in faith, the simplicity of faith. What does a little child need to know? A little one-year-old, a little two-year-old toddler? Isn't the picture that the altar is raised in such a low position

That the smallest, that the weakest one can get there. To receive help when they but want to humble their heart. And then God opens. God cleanses. God cares for such a one. To give them the freedom of a child of God.

For in the simplicity of hearing, sins and failures are forgiven, and Jesus' name and precious blood gives one the power to lift their gaze heavenward, to see the author and finisher of our faith, and to be restored in such a place as a little child to await the eternal home of heaven.

Listen, dear ones who would object or think differently than what the presentation this morning has said. Where is your heart? God will cleanse his kingdom. The differences that are here, the trials that we have been enduring spiritually, the day will come when God's kingdom is cleansed and there is such unity in his kingdom.

But where will each one of us be? Will we be in the kingdom, or will some of us have been lost to the outside, to utter hopelessness? So, Ben Iletal was next, and then we can take that away with Shannon Simonson. Ben Iletal from Alaska. First,

I would say it's really good to be here. Out of all of our board members, delegates, and speaker brothers in Alaska, all but one of us are here today, which, in the last few minutes sitting here, I thought how, thinking back to the board meeting that we recently had, talking about who's going to come here for this,

I think now it's kind of amazing how in years past for these board member workshops, we've sent one of our board members. And this time when the question came up, it was like, it didn't seem like anyone had a question when we were coming here. I think I can probably speak for the rest of us that came that we're glad that we did. And

Being from Alaska, I think if you talk to some other people from there, some of us probably feel like maybe we've kind of, the distance and not being able to attend a lot of these meetings and discussions that have gone on in recent years. And I know for sure myself and others can say it too, we kind of feel like we a little bit have our heads in the sand as far as what's been going on.

And I myself have been wondering, well, how far has this spread? And it's been really uplifting to hear all the speeches here today that 100% so far have answered the spirit. One thing I feel very lacking in is

From time to time I feel, you know, that maybe there's more I can do to call this person or talk to that person to help them understand. And I've been very, very slow to do that. And so, feeling that lacking in my sins, can I hear that gospel? So hopefully here I can speak to a couple things on my mind.

Like my brother-in-law, Jerry, who I just mentioned a little bit ago, I feel I'm the same way as him, that I don't have a deep understanding of doctrinal writings and so forth. So when I tend to...

think or speak of matters, I try to use pretty simple terms and simple examples. One thing that's been mentioned a few times here today is the example of the faith of a child. And I was kind of thinking that

I have small children. I mean, many of you have older children, so this might not be the case, but when it's mealtime at our house, our children come in to be fed. They don't come into the house to the dinner table to feed us. They come in to be fed. So we could ask ourselves, why do we go to Bible class? Why do we go to church? Why do we go to home services, song services?

I feel with some of these, this document that's been spoken about today, and I've seen or received one or two other things over the past few years here that people have distributed. And when I received them, I felt like they've been sent to me on the grounds of, here's something to teach you

how to believe. So when we go to church or other events while we go there, it's the same as when we call our small children in for supper time. We come to be fed. And today I feel like I have definitely been fed being here. I know our speaker brothers,

They don't go to church on Sunday because they have to speak. Bible class leaders, I'm sure you don't. I teach Bible class myself. That's not the reason I show up on Wednesday night. And so I think we need to remember that God's kingdom as a whole teaches us

and that we shouldn't ever come into anything with the mind that we are going to teach. And I'm sure some speaker brothers, I'm sure they would say, even in their duties, they've been fed. So I think this idea of sending documents out and whatever, I think it's a very, very dangerous road to go down.

And not to say that people shouldn't say what's on their mind and what's in their heart. That's why we're here today. But when I receive these type of things, it's almost like they come as a stink to them. And some of the stuff I've received, I actually haven't even read it.

because I looked at the first page and I already knew. The Spirit told me that there's no reason to read this. So next is Shannon Simonson, and then on deck would be Ole Mansfield. Shannon Simonson from Phoenix. I raised my hand about 30 minutes ago, and I think I got...

30 sermons from the devil of why I shouldn't be speaking. Can you bless me? First off, if anything I say here, it's incorrect. I hope and pray that

God will reveal it through brothers and sisters or through somebody. More importantly, I'd be humble enough to accept it. Anyways, Brian and Coyote Stone and myself were driving up here from Phoenix before we were driving Randy's Jeep up here. And Jeep didn't have any

Well, I had a radio, which is a CD player, and it was at church, and I thought, well, however, we can pass this time, 26 plus hours. Wednesday night, Bible class, walked to the bookstore, and I just looked for some CDs, and I found one with some old sermons from, I don't remember the names, but the last names would be Niskanen, Hayden, and Nordstrom.

Ryan and I had listened to those and it was amazing to both of us at how back in the 50s and 60s when these serpents took place, how relevant they are still today. And that same battle that we have right now at this moment was then also. The devil is not leaving any one of us alone.

And on the way up, I caught a text and asked this dear sister if I could share it. It says, prayers for you guys and all of Zion. It's not just us, everyone. With this upcoming meeting, I've come to realize I've gotten more wrapped up in this discussion than I knew I was. I woke up wondering how my brain had got to this point. Scary.

Wanted to share this simple reminder that was shared with me. We have faith of the heart, not of the mind. The mind can go crazy with questions and doubts and reasoning. It's best to keep it simple. And in simplest terms for me, if we are saved by God's grace, we endeavor by the power of the gospel.

I think of some of these things that, for myself, putting sin away. When I hear it being said, I think of it as an encouragement to put sin away. But when I'm being troubled and I have troubles and different things on my conscience, it becomes that it sounds like it's a command almost.

And it is not that way. We travel this journey, the only way that I know how to get down is by asking for that precious Gospel.

It'll last me a train of thought a little bit. But I also think that the reason why these are going on, I think of myself in the past. I was troubled at one point in my life, and I went to my dad, asking him why I keep being troubled.

He said to me, that you've asked for forgiveness. Those that you've offended have preached the gospel to you. God has forgiven you. Now, you have to believe and forgive. When I was done with that precious sermon,

I prayed to God that I could actually believe that forgiveness in years. And that's why I think that's going on today. That there's been offenses caused between brothers and sisters in faith. And until that love is restored, the forgiveness and the gospel preached, and most importantly,

believed this won't go away the only way this is going to go away is by the gospel being preached these things being believed thanks shannon so holy that's good and eric german mark let me bring the mic up here to eric while the holy speaking

When we started this morning before Harley's presentation, he asked the question, what kind of mind or condition of heart did we come here? I think it's a really, really good question to ask from ourselves.

I believe that most of us came here with a prayerful mind. We came here praying to God that He would give us the wisdom of the Holy Spirit that we could see the beauty of God's kingdom.

And I know that we were sent from our own congregations with the same prayer when we came here. That everyone here could see again the beauty of God's kingdom. And it's been so uplifting to hear and listen these short sermons, one after another, how God has revealed this

Goodness and love toward us sinful people. God has

But at the same time, we heard this presentation so, so clearly. I was rejoicing quietly in my heart. I was praising Heavenly Father, how good He is by giving those words and understanding what's the way to heaven and how Holy Spirit gives us that understanding. Because without that, we are in darkness. As Sam said,

I mentioned about that Kullervo Hulkkos book, Minä lähetän teidät. And that book told about the meeting of the hold held in 1911 in Finland. And in that book he writes how there were some speaker brothers

who had multiple times not to ask, not to serve. And there was no mutual understanding, or there was some mutual understanding that it was not good that they would serve.

Obviously we know that at that time it was not as fast, we can quickly send a message or email or whatever, phone call. So many of those brothers, they were not obedient for this, what they have been asked to come down. And they continued to preach in many locations.

And they even said that, show me in the scriptures where I have gone wrong. And they even asked forgiveness for their weaknesses and lackings. But they never asked forgiveness that they had been confusing God's kingdom and they

Why was it so? Because they had grown themselves. They were bigger than congregations. They did not want to hear the guidance of the Holy Spirit when that voice was nicely and again and again said from God's kingdom. They rather trusted their own knowledge

and granted them the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They were not obedient to God's congregation and the Spirit. What was the first human pair of the sin that they fell into? Wasn't that disobedience? They were not willing to listen to God's voice.

and not willing to fulfill God's will. They rather follow their own will. We have heard today multiple times that there has been so lovingly reminded, but also in truth, that those who have gone astray

those who have been disobedient, those who you have been reminded about these matters, that you would hear this voice. That you would not be in the same situation that there was in the time of Korah.

Or Sidon and Gomorrah. How many times believers prayed to God that God would save them? It was not only once. It was multiple, multiple times that they prayed to God that God would save. But what was the final conclusion? Because they were not obedient.

God said, separate yourself from them. And we remember what happened. The earth opened its mouth and they were swallowed to death. These prayers that God's children are sending to Heavenly Father on behalf of those ones who have lost the sight

Because we can certainly see that when we read even that letter that was sent out, I felt the same way. I read only half of it and I thought, if faith is this complicated, I lose my sight too. But this faith is simple. It's so simple if you have, if you own Holy Spirit through faith.

I talked to one of the elders in our congregation last Sunday. And he said as well that, how is it possible that somebody can lose their sight so totally? Before they were preciously believing, even speaking in front of the congregation. And then all of a sudden they lose their sight.

Dear brothers and sisters, if we are not obedient to the voice of the Holy Spirit, if we are not putting sin away, if we are not obedient children of God, God can take this gift away and we lose the sight. As that dear brother so clearly said that he could not see, he could not understand, even he had heard this presentation.

when he was in unbelief, he could not understand what was said. But when he got the grace of repentance, Holy Spirit opened his eyes to see. And that's our prayer, that those ones who have lost this sight could get that again.

But we have also that fear that if they don't see it, their own condition, that God either has taken already, since they have lost their faith, their sight, or will take this spirit away. God doesn't allow to play with the spirit.

Let's be obedient and let's be humble children of God. When God speaks to us, let's open to our hearts and let's be humble and remember that we have to believe our own sins forgiven. We can't believe on behalf of anybody else just for ourselves. Dear brothers and sisters,

I know that many of you have been in a battle, in the middle of these battles. But let's never lose the sight and the beauty of this Kingdom. This is God's Kingdom, where God teaches and guides us through His Spirit. And He has promised to be with His children. And let us not escape the room given this kind of Spirit in God's Kingdom.

Because it's not from God, it's from Satan. And if we give him the room to play the Satan spirit in God's Kingdom, we know how much damage it can cause. An enemy would like to attack against speakers, board members, those who have been called to serve, that he would be able to make as much damage as possible.

But if we remain in this childlike faith and simplicity of the faith, we believe our own sins forgiven, and we see the beauty of this God's kingdom, God will preserve us in this precious faith. If there is wolves in sheepfold, we have to chase them away.

There's only one doctrine, and it's a doctrine of Christ. Let's remain obedient to that doctrine. That doctrine will one day bring us to heaven's home. It's my desire one day to get to that heavenly home as well, but I found myself so sinful and doubting often.

But I want to believe still. Can I believe my many sins and doubts forgiven? So we're at Eric Germo and I think it's Scott. And then there's 14 names after that. Go ahead, Eric. Copy is at, I think, three.

Yeah, unless we go through it. Okay, thanks, Jared. It's been so good to meet you. I've rejoiced. I came with my own doubts, as I mentioned earlier, and my own worries and fears, but it's been so comforting to be here. This is God's kingdom. I've heard it said that darkness, God's protection,

and doctrine away so that a child can simply believe. And that's what I felt like today in hearing the presentation that our brother Pauly kept. God moved so clearly in that way in this presentation that my heart rejoiced. I said amen.

And, you know, I wish that was, you know, Ron Simonson said that he has those kinds of, I think he mentioned that he has those kinds of fleshly desires or whatever that he would have the gift and skill of other brothers. I know that's very close to me and this matter of Dr. Knight, I'm just not a very smart guy.

And I don't know how to articulate doctrine as some of you brothers do. And so I'm very thankful that God's kingdom has those kinds of gifts that can serve us. And when you serve with those gifts, my spirit answers and says amen. And I don't know how to compare things. And I've read a Bible and I've read Luther's teachings. And I don't retain. It's like a foreign language in some ways.

Askyoko, my Finnish skills are pretty minimal. He always makes fun of me. So even Jared does. And so I'm kind of a real simple guy. And so when I compare these things, what I thought of today was this presentation that honey kept.

and also how it contrasts with that letter that I received a week ago. And unfortunately, there are many, as I mentioned, the one sister who sent this to me, this letter has gone viral. It's taken legs and walked. And many have found this to be a very source of strength and comfort. But it didn't hit me, though. It hit me to the contrary, that it didn't answer to my spirit.

And so today, as I was listening to the presentation this morning, and as I compare that to the letter that was sent out a week ago, which would I teach my children? I would gladly teach this presentation that was kept today to my children. I would share that, I would visit with them about it, and I would wholeheartedly... One of the brothers said that there isn't one thing in that...

presentation that he would disagree with or change, and that's why I said it. It was like golden nuggets that God was dropping into our midst today. And the Spirit asked him and said, amen, amen. And so I rejoice with this. So sometimes at confirmation school when young people have asked about music, I don't have a real clear way of explaining what's right for proper music, what's wrong music.

But sometimes we'll compare worldly music and then this kind of New Age music. We did this one time. And we listened to this kind of New Age or even this modern classical. I'm not exactly sure what they called it. And then right behind that, we played songs and hymns of Zion or a composer like Bach. So it was very easy then to say, this

agrees with my spirit, and this doesn't. And I thought the same way, and we have something to compare. I can't go and accept of this letter really in any way. It doesn't answer. There may be parts, as I mentioned earlier, that you can agree with, but I wouldn't start to teach this letter to my children. It would be so confusing to them. It goes in circles, and I don't think it's

on the foundation, the clear foundation, which is the doctrine and teaching of God's kingdom. It's like that foundation of sand where you're trying to counteract a leading tower by propping it up in a different way. With the teaching and doctrine of God's kingdom, you don't need to do that. This has been, for me, the blessing of God's kingdom. Everything blends

Everything makes sense together. It's a whole. You don't have to fight pieces to put it together. Maggie hates when I work puzzles with her because I'm always trying to jam a puzzle piece that doesn't fit in the right spot. And it feels like in some ways when we get to these doctrinal questions or writings, you're trying to jam a puzzle piece somewhere where it doesn't belong.

And so this is what has been so comforting for me to be here today, that I can very confidently and comfortably share this presentation, not only with my children, but my grandchildren, but also with any believer who would ask for the reason for my salvation. You know, there's temptations on the left and the right.

You know, our fleshly temptations are what they are. They're ugly. I don't even want to go there because they're close. We all know them. We experience them. But there's also temptations on the right that are much more insidious. They're harder to detect, harder to see because bitterness or self-righteousness that's inside of us. The enemy has painted a good picture of that. Oh yeah, you're

You're okay because you're allowed to have those kinds of feelings or thoughts. Someone erred or someone's done something, so therefore you're justified in your position. But again, this is the devil's teaching. He'll try to allow us to justify sin on both the left and the right. But the middle of the road is where God wants us to stay.

So when I read articles or writings or even now the question has come about sermons, does the sermon edify or not? And I have no other way because I'm so simple in the way of doctrine and all those ways that does the Spirit answer and say amen? And I've been ridiculed in our day that you can't just say Spirit of God.

Well, I don't know what else to say. But my spirit is struggling. It does not answer to how I believe. So either I'm all goofed up and I need the care of the congregation, and I need brothers and sisters to care for me, or these matters that are troubling the congregation are not right. My spirit is answering and saying that

I've also heard this question lately of, how do you know that you have the right spirit? If you have to ask that question, you don't have the right spirit. The spirit testifies that I am God. It's like looking in a mirror, and when you hear the voice of the Good Shepherd, when you hear the voice of God, it answers and says, this is how I believe.

So it feels like today, in our day that we're living, the sheep have been troubled. Those everyday Christians have a set of inventions and they've backed. They haven't agreed to all of the service. They haven't agreed to the doctrine that has been spoken or explained

It's been troubling. We've tried for these months and years to speak of these things. We've encouraged onto repentance. We've had meetings where the congregation have consoled and requested and prayed and begged for those who are struggling that they would come onto a place of repentance.

Many of them, unfortunately, to this day, have not hearkened to the voice of the incarnation. And it feels to me like for some of them now, the kingdom of God has turned into some kind of a wrinkly old lady instead of a beautiful mother that cares and tends for her child.

This is what I'm worried about and I'm worried over. I need to trust in the congregation. My understanding is weak. I need to place myself directly into the care of the congregation. And there are those even here today who have matters of question have been raised around them, servants of the word.

congregations have asked and concerned about them that would it be better until these times of unrest were resolved that instead of confusing controlling the little weak and tender sheep that you would allow a time of rest it seems like it's such a

simple request for the sake of the elect that we would put away our own pride for the sake of what is best.

How can I say that I deserve this or in some ways that I'm entitled to it? Whether it's believing or serving. But it is God's doing in all things. And if you lose that simple humility and childlike faith, then there comes these kinds of times of strife, battle. Things become

unrestful, and so now, brothers and sisters, as these days have gone on and the sermon of repentance has been called or sent, to even those who have struggled, I pray on their behalf that they would be able to hear that loving voice and call on the Mother to return.

God's kingdom will always be here on earth. Whether we are a part of the God's kingdom is a question that we all need to prayerfully ask. David said, search me, O God, know my heart, and see if there be any evil or wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. This is the prayer of a children's prayer of a child. One of our discussions around this letter

that I've referenced, some have said that there's much in there that's correct, and I don't disagree with that. There's also much in that that I don't disagree with, or don't agree with. And as we would discuss these things, even different points in that, others would say, you know, I don't really agree with that either, or I don't agree with this either, this position's a little bit off. But then to ask them,

to denounce the letter, to say that this isn't how I believe, they're still hanging on to something in there that, to me, when I think of it now, it starts to approach this kind of spiritual fornication. Fornication is having two loves. Having a wife and a lover, or having many lovers.

Spiritual fornication is having many lovers. God doesn't tell us that. We can only love him. Or he will reject us. There isn't many spirits. There's only one spirit. There's only one kingdom. There's only one truth. This is the nature of God's kingdom. It's not me or my word or my teaching. This is what God's word says.

There's one faith, one baptism, one spirit, one God, one Father of all. And whether or not we're a part of that is the question. And this is what I would be, as one of the brothers also encouraged, that those who have found themselves to be so struggling, it would be well that you would pray that God would give you a place of repentance.

otherwise god's kingdom is going to move on we might be left on the wayside brothers i tremble when i say these words but this is the content of my heart this is how i believe i believe there is this kind of different spirit working among us

It doesn't edify. It doesn't call. It doesn't gather. Those folks who are there are not happy. They're angry. They're defensive. It's nothing through the Spirit. Through the Spirit is love, meekness, joy, longsuffering, kindness. The Apostle Paul writes that.

And he says this for a purpose and for a reason. It's not to be mean or to be whatever. You brothers know what I would mean, I hope. But when the Apostle Paul says that, when he says to mark them which cause divisions,

and offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned avoid them and it's for this reason for they that are such serve not our lord jesus christ but their own belly and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple i've been weak and tempted

I've been as forward or as good as I should be in bringing those concerns I have towards those who are struggling. I've tried in my own weak ways to do this. But I'm fearful because I'm so weak and tempted that I'll lose my own simple childlike faith. That faith that I believe carried my father to the glory of heaven.

And I want to see him here someday. So this is where I feel we are coming to that point where God's kingdom is going to move on. There may be those who are left. I didn't think there, as we're awaiting that time of judgment,

those on the left, those on the right. For those who once owned the name of a child of God, I think it's going to be a very, very sad, even worse day for them there than for those who didn't know what they gave up. But to look across the other lane there or the other aisle where there's this sheep gathered and recognize there are those loved ones

We're being called into the glory of heaven. And I'm being left behind. This is the concern that I have for my dear friends and loved ones. Family members, congregation members, brothers and sisters who have known my whole life who are struggling. May God somehow

allow them a grace understanding of where they are to repent. Can I still hear the gospel? The trumpet is being sounded. It's

Five after three, we want to continue. Or do you want a break? If anyone wants coffee, feel free. We'll continue with the discussion. Keith, you're on notice. So we have Scott Simonson, and then after that will be Marty Pilbein.

Well, there's a lot on my mind. I just wanted to start off with a text that my wife sent me this morning when I told her that I wished that she could be here.

to help me through my own struggling with what's been going on. I think she texts the thoughts and prayers of many.

for a simple message of love and forgiveness, and personal faith, and peace with God, all Zion prays. I have to say that I agree with what I heard my brother Shannon say, that love isn't real. I'm troubled by the finger pointing, I have to be honest.

I'm reminded of our minister's camp three years ago, how our brother Mark Slobe, he had seemingly, I asked him afterwards why he was with him about this text that he had read about last week. We were discussing the question of forgiveness and he said that I just thought it too was

But as I read that text afterwards, it came to me that I believe in my heart that Jesus was warning us. But when we get into these times, how serious a matter it is.

If we read what it says in Mark, it says, He called unto them and said unto them, Here goes often Satan, cast out Satan. Let the kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. Let the house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself and be divided, he cannot stand without an end.

No man can enter into a strong man's house as well as this, except he will first bind his own hand, and then he will spoil his house. Rarely has he any fear. All sins shall be forgiven unto sons of men, and blasphemies for a rich sword they shall blaspheme. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath no forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Let's remember that this was a spiritual battle between Christ and a missed citizen who was speaking to the Pharisees. And it ends this chapter, or this portion,

I don't know what blasphemy is. But I, in myself, have felt this great fear of rushing into judgment. And again, within myself, I felt like Jesus was there. We know that he's there with you when you're present. I didn't feel like that was good sense.

God says, my word will not return for you. It doesn't matter who the patient is, the person, but it was God's word. And so I pondered these matters, and I've had discussion with many in our congregation.

I'm in trouble. I visited with my father-in-law about this disembodied thing. I asked him, if we as a congregation are not going to be free, if we as ministers and board members are troubled with another believer, would we not consult the congregation before going to say that you're not welcome? He said,

Maybe we can justify why we did it that way. But it does trouble, if we believe in the Mother, that we would ask and seek guidance from the Mother, that we would bring it to the congregation to discuss before we take such an action. Another thing that troubles many is the putting of thoughts

and words into people's mouths that they don't think and they don't say they don't believe. I can say that I feel confident that everybody in here today agrees with Huddie's presentation. But I've heard people say that some don't. To me, this is bearing false witness.

To say something that somebody doesn't believe. To say that they believe something they don't. It seems that simple to me. A lot complicated. It says, be first the kingdom of God. We do seek the kingdom of God, the kingdom of God that preaches forgiveness. We belong in its kingdom of forgiveness.

You want to forgive one another, to have the love of Christ for one another. That Hadi spoke of that precious story of visiting the man who had all the questions. But I saw the love of the believer in Hadi. He listened to the man. He visited the man. He didn't send him away and increase the gospel, which answered the questions.

He'd also spoken in one part, which is a question that I've had, about going to the doctor. The doctor had an answer. We go to the doctor to give the answer to what is wrong. He doesn't give us a vague answer. There's been this question of what is wrong, but the answers seem to be vague.

that I can say, regarding this letter, that I've had some of those same concerns. And I don't know that having the concerns makes me questioning badly about God's kingdom. I just, I've asked these questions. It's one visit. It's not to become wise.

I've had the same question as honey. God, why have I been called at this time? Why not of all times? I don't know, but I've been troubled by some of the things that I've heard publicly. Not by yourself.

I've heard more often than I think I should have that faith is not that simple. That it's not a matter of just believing. But it is. At least in human history, it's pretty simple. My brothers in Seattle said to me something. And so I felt like I would come, I've had this question

but do we have permission to believe? And this is a question that I felt like I would come with this question is, do we have permission to believe? Since we're here, every moment, through the very word of Christ. This is the understanding that I had, the understanding that we discussed in Seattle, that it seemed that we had the unity in this, that faith is system,

that when we believe in jesus christ the son of god who died on us rose again from the dead when we embrace him when we believe in him we believe in his work but he's not for us that god does not appear

And we have permission to believe that in when we are a believer in the kingdom of God. We have permission to believe that every moment. We live with that. And we can also speak that and ask for it personally. We can speak of our doubts. We can speak of our sins. We can turn to another believer and share it.

And hear the gospel personally. But we also have the mission. To believe. Even as brother God. As Joseph. Who was all alone. God is with you. Through faith.

as one who doesn't call that's very low through the last part of this i don't have the answers but i don't this talk of heresy but i've heard that's troubled me there's many that almost seem like it's a foregone conclusion

would restore the love that everyone would look into their own heart, me included. Ask God, search me, oh God, because I know on Judgment Day there's only one mediator in me. I will answer to God, neither Christ will speak for me.

And so I have to say that with this presentation, I say amen to what my brother has given me. And I can thank God for our brother that's given us today. But I have heard, even as my life was reminded me, it's okay through God on this,

Don't make it your man. And you have thoughts too. And I've asked myself, perhaps it is, that in my moments of fear or in moments of my flesh, that maybe I've reacted in some way that I shouldn't have.

Our brother from Finland that was here last year that spoke at summer services visited with my sister and reminded her is that you've been hurt, right? And we cause offense in the wrong way and we want to take care of those things. We are all flesh and blood. They slew the rope on his deathbed. We are all beggars.

And before the eyes of God, without grace, are doomed. So brothers and sisters, my prayer for this weekend is that the gospel would untie the knots. That he would stop all

That God would tell me to live within myself. And not to say, have you? Do I have a part in this? The Bible is full of examples of those precious lives.

Can I believe my own sense of weakness and thoughts and fears forgiven?

Okay, it's my turn here, so I've got to chase everybody. I, like many others that have come to this meeting, am very doubtful, but hopeful, and I would ask that I could have all my doubts and sins straightened.

I'll maybe just take this time to just give a couple of my own thoughts. I feel that, you know, my spirit has said amen to, you know, the presentation and many, many of the speeches. And I just want to share with you, one of my daughters sent me a message this morning. She said, thinking of you, Dad, as you attend the meeting, praying for all of God's kingdom,

And she quoted a song that says,

O may we hear thy doctrine true and follow its instructions too. O gracious Spirit, unto thee we carry all our cares and needs. I think those prayers have been sent by many, many congregations to this meeting today. And we've heard, I feel that I personally have heard that message of the Good Shepherd.

And I ask if you haven't heard that good message, what have you heard? Closely with Ed and Marty Pilgrim. And then we're going to go to Chat 11. We can get the mic over in the back. Marty Pilgrim from Detroit.

I was reminded this morning of listening to the presentation how my wife and I both had commented last fall when we were able to gather and ask at late for Bible camp there on what was enjoyable to hear discussions of. Many of the

things that we learn here today. It seems however maybe it may be more difficult tomorrow, but for this moment it's very refreshing for me to hear the opening devotion and the presentation. I think of this

discussion point of how the Holy Spirit works in God's congregation and we who are here today as board members or ministers we have a simple duty in God's congregation

You can perhaps even turn to your congregation's constitution or whatever. I'm sure the main duty that we are responsible for is to preach repentance and forgiveness of sins.

It's a very sobering duty at the end. And Christ speaks to his disciples, a very sobering parable in this regard.

But there was a certain rich man which had a steward, and the same was accused unto him that he wasted his goods. And he called him and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? Give an account of thy stewardship, for thou mayest be no longer steward.

and indesperable as our Heavenly Father. And He has called one who has fallen, one who has erred, as He calls all who fall. But He asked him...

wasted the goods of the Mass? What are the goods that we as stewards in God's Kingdom use? Is it not simply the preaching of the Gospel, the forgiveness of sins? How can you waste these goods?

I don't know that I understand this text so well. But I have thought in this way. There's perhaps two ways one can waste the goods of our Heavenly Father. As Don spoke earlier of the last heresy, there was a spirit of leniency

When one does not preach sin as sin, are we not wasting the goods of our Heavenly Father? Against the same token, when one falls into a spirit of self-righteousness, when their own understanding and knowledge

becomes the way of salvation, are they not also wasting the goods of the mass? Or in both cases, they diminish the work of Christ. Christ, we heard this morning that we would have the light of Christ

his servant, his congregation. What was his mind? He humbled himself, humbled himself unto death, even the death on the cross. May we be given

even to preach it over and over again. There's no limit. Seven times seven is our instruction. We cannot underestimate the power of the Gospel. And we can turn to God

In prayer even. At this time. That those who God calls today. Would not be like this unjust Lord. Who said within himself. What shall I do when the Lord taketh away from me this worship? I cannot dig to beg. I am chained.

as those grace-beggars, simply satisfied with the crumbs that fall from the Master's table, and we as servants and board members, we need to ensure that in God's congregation,

I also believe my many sins and doubts forgiven. Okay, so we have Chad Ouellette in the next up. Andrew Wilkes. I don't know where Andrew is. Chad Ouellette from Williston. Greetings from Northwest North Dakota.

I'll have to say, before coming to this meeting, I was actually very fearful, although in my home congregation it's been a relative time of peace and unity. I haven't heard of any unrest other than the normal

work of the devil going about trying to destroy. But as far as these issues that keep being talked about in the kingdom, our board and our congregation has been of one mind, one spirit.

Things talked about in other places, I think it affects us all as believers because we care about our brothers and sisters in faith no matter where they are. And I guess the fear of the unknown and Satan always being there in our flesh, I was very fearful and nervous coming here.

And after the opening devotion and the presentation and sitting here listening to all the speaking terms, I can tell you that my heart rejoices and says amen. And there's no doubt in my heart that we have a good God. The Holy Spirit is here.

And I'm being taken care of here. I thought of a story sitting here listening to the presentation. A pretty personal one. It didn't happen that long ago, but a lot of the details are gone from my mind. But...

Little issues started coming up between my wife and I, causing a disturbance in the home, our little home congregation family. I guess I'll start with the fact that academically I was never very good.

They were very smart. A few of my temporal brothers and my dad are sitting in here making votes for that. I was never a very good student. But one thing that I guess I was just naturally good at was reading comprehension without even trying. I always got real high marks in my time in grade school and high school.

And as these issues were cropping up between my wife and I, like I said, I can't remember a lot of little details that don't even matter, but a lot of them had to do with raising the kids and different decisions we had made. I would find places in the Bible, in the Scriptures, in God's Word,

that supported my way of thinking, my decisions. And we would discuss and discuss and argue and argue and it would never end. And things would get worse. Love was broken. After it had been going on for some time, we were fortunate enough to take a vacation to Arizona.

get away for a couple days with my parents. We had discussed briefly and lightly with a few other believers before this. We were on this little getaway with my parents and my dear wife brought up these concerns. And in love and patience, my wife and my parents discussed these matters with me.

I was so good at reading comprehension. And I was reading God's Word, so how could I be wrong? It's plain English. There's no way I was wrong, but the destruction continued in our marriage and our family. All I can say is today I'm so thankful

And I praise God that He was able to get into my heart and show me that my own mind, my own carnal mind, my reading comprehension, using God's Word is nothing. But I needed to sit there in church and listen

to the servants, sit there in the congregational discussions and hear what the Spirit says to the church. The little bit I've heard and know about the issues in the kingdom today, it seems to be like some people might be using their own carnal mind

and might be smarter at putting themselves higher than the congregation and the Holy Spirit. I pray a couple of things. First and foremost, I pray that I wouldn't be lost, that I would remain in the care of the kingdom and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

And also that if there's anyone sitting here today in this building or listening on the internet, that God would show you the love. First you have to have the love and then to not rely on your own carnal understanding. But listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. For all my sins and doubts, lay up all this

Okay, so we were at the end of Oaksa and then there was something there, like behind where I was sitting. Right there? Okay. So it'll be next... May? Was it May? Is that what you said?

Andrew Lokesa from Flathead Valley Congregation in Montana. And like others, I'd like to bring the greetings, love and God's peace from the members out there. Certainly are remembered here. Like a few others have said, I feel like we in a way have been kind of sheltered, we're not on the battlefront of these issues, although they are still there.

I guess to start off, I remember when I was younger hearing how people would say, oh, it feels so good to be here. And I never understood that. But today, I understand that. And my spirit has said, oh man, it's been so good to be here. And I...

I come with very little understanding, very little knowledge of the Bible. Some of the things I've heard is how you should read the Bible so that when a minister speaks wrongly, you can correct them. And I don't know much of the Bible, but I know enough that we're supposed to believe as a little child and simply believe and trust.

And that if the speaking is wrong, the Holy Spirit will let us know. It will trouble us. We don't need to use our own understanding to try and... I guess I don't know where I was going with that, but...

But it's so clearly staged how to believe as a child. And then as far as on the issue of the continual forgiveness or the robe of righteousness, I had a discussion with some individuals not too long ago that really troubled me with some of their

viewpoints and how not necessarily what they were saying was wrong, but how they felt that the main point of the gospel was just a reassurance for them that they can believe. And I agree with that, but I feel that more importantly,

I know myself, I need the gospel to wash away my sins because I know when I have sins on my conscience, I am so quick to anger and bitterness. It makes it hard for me to want to be around believers, make it to church. And it makes it very clear to me that the gospel is a necessity in my faith life.

that with old Dad, we're nothing. For my own many delts and sins, I've asked you to forgive me. Okay, let's see where it was made. Mackie.

Tim Missipin from Illinois, and I find myself rejoicing that I was able to make it to this meeting. It reminds me, growing up at the time of the last heresy, and one of the things that took place at that last heresy, you know, in the time of leniency,

I remember one of the leaders of that heresy was saying he's being picked upon. And in Galatians, Paul says,

We need to hear that gospel. We sin each and every day in thought and deed and heart. And we receive strength today on this journey by and through this rich word of this gospel from our escorts here on this journey. And I would think also, when we think of a book or

I also am one of those poor speaker brothers, weak. And that my hope and prayer would be that I would not leave anyone astray. That if it doesn't sound right, that I would be put down. I do not need to be a speaker or preacher in God's kingdom. I rejoice that I can be a hearer of God's word.

And I think about when one has been put down from speaking by the congregation, and if ones are rising up against it, they are battling God's kingdom and God. And too, I was just trying to ask, can you hear that gospel and do my many thoughts and sins for God?

And then after, we're going to go to Walt Lampe over here. Sorry, Nathan Mackey from Alaska. I, like a lot of people here,

felt well secluded as far as location, where we lived. And, sorry, I was pretty fearful of coming to visit. And,

so happy to feel I guess it's the only of a lot of the brothers that have been speaking and just conversations at lunch or whatever and just

From my own life of faith, I was thankful to be able to come. Because it was feeling down. And right now it feels strong. Like I know where I should be.

for, I don't really know how to put it into words, but some things that I mentioned that, you know, brothers that feel oppressed or that feel that like they're

not being heard because maybe they have a different understanding or something that don't let the devil use that as a tool to I guess stop them or to

Keep from speaking, I guess. The devil is going to want to tell you that the other guy is accusing you. And for the guy that's rebuking, the devil is going to tell you that you're being, you know, mean-spirited or whatever. So...

I just know that God gave a beautiful presentation this morning and it rang true in my heart. And like Chad up here said, I know I couldn't live without the gospel. And

confession as a tool to carry on against the devil. Because they're all brothers. And if there's differences, it's not. A lot of times between our brothers, we get a long way. It's between the devil and the Heavenly Father. And

I just could ask to hear that gospel one. And for my many deaths. Okay. It's about peace. It's about peace. It's about peace.

So long since I raised my hand to speak, I think many points have been covered. I think one of the thoughts that continues to come to me as a study of this thought in his time

where he talked about the faith of the stout and the faith of the colored. I think some brothers have touched upon that. I think that has a lot of meaning for our coming.

It's possible to have a faith of intellect. We can understand, or let's say, we can repeat the doctrines of Luther,

I guess teachings, perhaps we can repeat all the things that we've learned since our youth, but that's knowledge in part, and faith and knowledge are not the same thing.

I think it's important to remember that there is the faith of the heart. When we speak of faith, that's what we mean, the faith of the heart. And it has been said many times today that we receive that nourishment to continue faith

to give us strength to make this journey. And then Harry Hudney had a point in his presentation. He referred to the Old Testament time, an example of that. Just recently in our area, we talked about that in our Bible class.

and so forth, but when you think of it, the same people, or all the people, received that same man. But at some point, some started to rebel at it. It became light bread. It's not really had any presentation. We can kind of picture them speaking out that,

same manner that one time he loved, one time he nourished them. So I think what takes place in those circumstances is that

Faith that goes from faith of the heart to faith of the intellect and knowledge. And of course we're not saved by knowledge. And to me personally, that seems to be at least part of the issues that we face today is

Something has taken place in the hearts of some people where it's gone from a heartfelt childlike faith to a more of a theological type of approach to things. I one time read that, and I think somebody quoted that part of the scriptures that there's divisions and contentions

among you, and the writer who had looked a little further into that had come up with this, I thought, very interesting thought. He said that some at that time that Paul had written had begun to preach theology.

Instead of preaching the simple gospel, when you preach theology as a higher truth, if you want to call it that, then a simple message of the gospel, the bread and water of life, you do get contention and you do get division.

So I observed, for others, I have heard so many wonderful and precious confessions of faith. I don't know you all by name, even by heart, but I heard so many of the young directors speak, and I thought that...

there's a bright future for God's kingdom. And I marvel at the wisdom of the Spirit that has come forth through the individual confessions of faith. But I really think that it...

There is a place, like some have quoted of David, that searched my heart, and I tried to find a New Testament part in it. I know Paul has that similar thought, that one should search their heart, that do they have faith?

I'll use an example to try to make that point. How does a person do that? Over quite a few years ago, there was a little clique of believers in the congregation that got all twisted up and sure of themselves.

I can say self-righteous in their thoughts, elevated. And they were caught in a fine web that they could not see themselves. And we would have said, search yourself. Maybe someone did say that. It's...

How do you do that? I think that you have to ask the basic questions. Am I in the love of the congregation? Does my heart give testimony that I am a child of God through the kingdom of God? Do I have the testimony of God's word that I am? There are those three testimonies. But it's up

Really, God's good grace, in the example that I gave, one of those people repented. And he became such a dear brother, such a, how could we say, selfless supporter of the Word.

heart went from black, we could say, to white by God's good grace and he opened to that brother where he was. So I know that that can happen and that can happen here in our time too, those that are hanging on to their own understandings and

So trying to be right more than being, focusing more on being right than who knows and who has the knowledge and so on and so forth.

Instead of am I a believer, do I have the hope of eternal life? So I think the enemy in these things has been clever to captivate.

the minds of some, so that they see this kingdom that we see as very beautiful, very precious place, all of it, and that fellowship with God's children is at your place to be, as some all seem, faulty individuals, and there is a lot of fault that we carry.

That's where I think at least part of this, it does go back to that point by faith or by understanding. Faith and understanding or faith and knowledge are not the same thing.

I was heartened that one of the brothers, Scott, a son, he said that he is struggling, but he tried to express himself. But it also made me think that same what we feel as the man.

Of God's word to us by the testimony of so many brothers today that it is the voice of the good shepherd. It is the man of God's word. It is that version. Now yet it can be received by that same man.

by others as not good tasting, not something we want to eat. So, those were my thoughts. I certainly do need to be remembered in this walk of faith. I'm thankful that I can be part of God's kingdom and fellowship with his children. I ask for that gospel too. Amen.

Maybe before Hanu takes his turn, I had a thought that was kind of struggling as to whether I should say it or not, but I would encourage those. I received an email this past week from a brother who said that his letter that was sent out spoke very clearly of how he believed.

And it was from the Wolf Lake Brothers, so I would just encourage it. This is the place to bring it up, and this is where we would want to discuss it. I think we've heard from others who haven't felt that same way regarding that letter, but it would be good if you could be free and open and voice...

your concerns. You said you wanted me to share it with our whole board in the email, so it sounded like it was something that you wanted to discuss today. So again, just encourage you to bring your concerns freely and openly. Okay, so we have Pandu, and then right there, Andrew? Andre.

from the Lethbridge congregation. I have to say that I have been here listening and it's so nice to hear that presentation and say I'm into it. As the brothers have already said, all of it spoke according to how I believe.

I have felt the presence of the Holy Spirit here in our meeting and it has been good to be here. Regarding that other letter, the letter that came a week ago, when I read it I was saddened and concerned that is that how

some belief in confusion. I have been thinking of that letter and I categorize it as dangerous, danger, danger. I do not want to ever read it again. And that

has caused me to think back in my life to decades back. I want to relay to you, dear brothers and sisters, how cunning the enemy is. I was a young board member in the congregation.

not carrying any namesense that I can remember. But the enemy came to me via another board member, preaching something similar to what I read in that letter. I began to listen to that voice.

the reason to my current mind began to sound okay. And after some not very long weeks, I began to agree. The criticism was against the local speakers,

that there was something missing in her sermon. And from that moment, it was incredible when I think back to it. I began to listen with critical ear to every word that was spoken, looking at every word in action, looking for faults and mistakes.

I became a diligent worker of the Indian souls. I was meeting with those that had brought that to me, and I grew together and began to now look for support from everywhere they could.

that these two speaker brothers are not speaking correctly. I did not listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit.

sinful people, and I was fault-seeking. As it is in God's Kingdom, concerns arose with regards to me and the others that have fallen into this, and meetings were held culminating in a

I know when the Holy Spirit did point a finger at me, that you had fallen into the long spirit. God gave, fortunately for me,

I acknowledged that if the brothers would say, I have a father, then I wanted to put it away. I was tongue-struck at the moment. I didn't understand.

Later, when God gave grace to begin to understand, I was horrified of what I had been doing. And in light of these kind of experiences, I thought,

with something that is so appealing to the flesh. And it is so easy to begin to ignore that loving voice of the Holy Spirit that speaks in the last congregation.

if I would not have been able to go and put my aim sins that have happened during the journey away in private confession. It has freed me from those sins and encouraged me to take a yet another step forward. I have been able to rejoice and I have been able to put those sins away.

listen to that enemy that slightly approaches us as he did in the garden reading. It doesn't matter if you take all that trouble and do your knowledge of good and evil. We can remain as a

Simple child of God. Looking for the sound of the Holy Spirit. Seeing how the Kingdom of God teaches. Staying away from those strange sounds. They listen for the voice of the Good Shepherd. And they stay away from those alien sounds that are not the familiar sounds.

comforting voice of the good shepherd. It is good when matters are pointed out in God's time that they do, as the brothers have already said. And I'm so happy for myself that God, through the brothers, were able to point that finger at me and put me in a place

I could say that I could not wriggle out of it. And God humbled me, you see, on a mission. May we all continue in this way. And those that have found themselves not rejoicing at the sound of the Holy Spirit here today and at that presentation,

Begin to examine in your heart why I am not happy and joyful at this moment. I have lost that beauty inside of God's kingdom. We always want to keep that to us. So beautiful that we can be part of it. As a lonely one even in this

So may God continue to bless our meeting. Okay, we have Andre and then we're going to go to Bruce. Andre or Mark from Outlook.

It seems like it's been forever since they had my hand up, and it feels like I'm wondering if what I have to say has anything to do with us being talked about. I just want to hear the gospel. Amen.

These discussion points that I looked at, the first thing is I don't think they have any kind of instruction on or anything really to say about much of the issues right now, so that's kind of where a lot of them go, but what I have to say is worthwhile, but I looked at these discussion points and there's,

A little story that kind of touched on all these different points that are out there. Growing up, we grew up in a believing home. My dad wasn't believing. Anyways, so he wasn't believing and I remember night after night going to bed with that prayer that he would be given the strength to believe.

I remember going up to his room, timid but young, and asking him if he wants to believe the sins of you. No, I don't believe those. That was his answer. You know, as life went on, you live life, and at times you think about it, at times it was in the background, and

I remember, I don't know when it was, but Dad had gotten really, really sick. It was around Christmas time. And of course, we were worried about

where he goes, you know, and in and out of the hospital. Then it would sound like maybe he'd just knock it away. And I remember we got this

building a sauna, and I figured, well, let's build a sauna. Kind of put it on my mind, you know, and obviously it went up to the love school. So I was moving the sauna from our shop to my place, and I fronted the order,

Trying to occupy my mind with that, I think. I don't know for sure, but I don't know if you can see the call. But, in the future gospel, that you believe.

I think by the time I got off the motor, I think I already doubted. I remember going up to the city, about an hour's drive, full of doubts, like, is he believing? I remember going up to the hospital, felt like I had

He led away with some of his shoes. And it seems kind of funny that that's how I felt. Well, I opened that door. And he looked at me. And my spirit rejoiced. And he, well, I felt like just running across the room.

Of course he can't join in there, but he's just looking, he's just, he knows he wants to hear the gospel. What a precious thing. I just think that that's, that he, when he believed, he was a believer, he was acceptable.

clean before the face of God. You know? And it felt at that time that for me too, that yeah, I'm acceptable. I'm an acceptable child. But not long after that, God's come again and God's came for both of us. And we needed the gospel to carry us down shore and down there. And that's

Passing away, but he reached heaven, sure. But not by the strength of his faith. He reached heaven, sure, because he would yearn for the gospel. The gospel message that we all yearn for. And I think if we don't yearn for that message, then...

then we can be lost. But we're all, I think we're all sinful and proud. We lie on our own. Understandings, I think, at times. I guess I know what I'm going to say.

Thank you. Bruce. Bruce from Phoenix. And being that I don't think Keith or Shannon took the opportunity to bring the greetings, and those from Phoenix, so I'll take that opportunity to bring those greetings here. And when I was...

A couple of Sundays ago, somebody asked if I was coming. I said I was. And he said, well, just go there and speak what's on your heart and listen to the mother. And he gave a lot of good instruction. And then the next day I talked to Keith and he says that that same memory offered him that same message.

It's so comforting to hear that because as a board member I often feel alone even though we were asked to serve because I've said many times and I say again that our congregation when they appointed me they were clearly blind and deaf but yet I will serve with the gifts that I've been given.

And I come here with these thoughts as a grace favor. And I'm willing to be corrected in anything that I say that is an error or not correct according to what is God and God's kingdom. And I'd ask first that I could hear that gospel. Can I believe? Although the flesh would...

The flesh fights this. My desire to believe and get to heaven is the strongest desire that I have. And I want the help of the precious escorts that are here. First being my wife, and then the rest of the people in Zion. And this morning when I heard that presentation, my heart rejoiced. I said, this is how I believe. This is

This is how I have always believed. This is how the Spirit has taught me. This is in the home that I grew up, how my father taught us. In his weak ways, but yet his love for his children was so strong. So as I'm going through these discussions lately with other individuals, I think of the spiritual battles, that this is really the first strong personal battle that I've felt for myself that has really been difficult to get my...

getting my mind around, and I thought back to that, how would Dad approach these matters? And I said, well, you know, he was certainly, you know, in my mind, he was always old. So I did some math as I was sitting at lunch today, and he was probably in his late, I guess he was in his late 20s during the time of the spiritual struggles by our heroes in the 20s prior to the heresy. And I thought how I was in the 20s and how I was

pretty free-spirited, I guess, in the sense that I really wasn't faced with these types of things and I simply believe and I'm thankful that I have been in spite of my own way that I've been kept in God's Kingdom. Then I thought about what is the Holy Spirit and how does it guide and I was brought back to a Bible class

that I was asked to give. In the Phoenix congregation, we are asked to, we have a topic that's decided by a committee, and then those are, you're assigned a certain topic, and then you study that, and that's what you present. I don't remember the Bible text at this point, but it was last year sometime, and I studied that text, I read that text, I studied that text, and I didn't get anything. I was like, I don't know what to do.

So we had our opening song, opening with the Lord's Prayer. I read the presentation on a PowerPoint and got done and said either we're going to, I had nothing to add, I don't know what to discuss, it's a quarter after seven, so we'll either have song services or if there's an congregation who could take it from here, we could have a discussion.

And it was a little bit after 8 when I remember saying, well, our coffee's probably getting cold. We should end the discussion. It was very nice. And to me, that was the Holy Spirit revealing that particular text and that lesson to the congregation. And it was comforting that it's nothing that I had done. Because I do some through work and other needs. I do some public speaking. And there's an easy spot to get proud. But when you get in front of the congregation...

It's a spot where you need to humble yourself, and it's a difficult spot for me to be when you have these battles going on between the flesh and the spirit. And as we heard of, let me back up, I was asked by, through text, phone calls, emails, and even people at Phoenix Congregation that, did you get the letter?

And that's what's been referred to in the last couple of weeks. And I said, yes, I got the letter. No, it is not how I believe. And I trembled to continue, but no, it is not the view of the Phoenix congregation. I was asked that. And no, it is not the view of the Phoenix board.

It is important for us to listen, because we've been instructed all day to listen to the voice of the Good Shepherd. And today, if you are not hearing that voice, search your heart and see that God will open it. We think about these sins, and I was reminded recently that if you get a wound in a battle,

that if you sat up, if you just prayed over it, or you washed over it, or you ignored it, or many other things, that that wound wouldn't heal, that you would need to have it cleaned by somebody. And an untended wound will infect you and make you sick and perhaps die. Untended sin does the same thing.

must pause and wash those away in the blood of Christ. This is how I will live. Very simply, when sins attach, when wounds are caused, the Gospel cleanses that so that I can continue on yet for one more day. And my prayer is, through all of this,

none would be lost. Thank you. Brothers, it's 4.30. It's time for our closing devotion. How many speaking terms are left on your team? About 19. Thank you.

I'm going to be able to stay in the evening. Okay. I think we should continue that way. We can have a separate break at 5.

And then continuing for the evening, for those of you that can stay, Monticello is kind enough to keep the doors open. It won't lock itself, so let's do that. We'll break the supper at 5 and then continue on as soon as we can thereafter.

Okay, so we have Mike Journal, and then after that it's going to be Tom Stewart. So Mike's in the back there, and then, okay, and then Tom Stewart. So...

In the beginning, feeling my own sinfulness and poorness, can I have my sins forgiven? I wanted to also agree and say that my spirit said amen to the opening devotion and to the presentation that we saw. There was so much food and I'm

that I was hoping to remember I think I forgot them already but one of the things that came to mind when I was looking at the discussion points was this by faith and understanding question and we've had many conversations in our local home area and on our local board many of the things many many times we've heard this that

We have to understand the doctrine. Let's discuss the doctrine. Let's see if we agree on the doctrine. And today we were reminded that the greatest in the kingdom is a little child. And that's how I believe.

we've had Jim Fronte presented that presentation that he did at Minister's Camp and one of the things that was in there was this idea that there's unity in God's kingdom and if you don't feel the unity

If you don't feel that you're in the unity, then you need to examine your heart. This third point up here also seems to me to speak to that, that the Holy Spirit gives birth to faith in the fellowship of God's congregation. And so

to walk with the escorts that can help me and teach me and hold me up. So, I had a little conversation with someone that's very near and dear to me. I'm not gonna tell you that it was my wife, because if she finds out that I was talking about her, I'll get in trouble.

was in the sauna and she asked me a trick question. She asked me one in the evening, like, so how do we get to heaven? And I kind of thought that maybe it is a trick question, but she's not usually tricky. So I just said that, well, it says in the good book that we're saved by faith through grace. And she looked at me and she said, you know what I say?

I'd say that we get to heaven by having our sins forgiven. I had to pause and think and consider the whole import of that simple little message. Because she didn't argue that we're saved by faith through grace. She knew that. But she...

Like a mom does, she went right to the bottom line and said, how do I keep my faith? And we've heard that message many times today, and my heart rejoices to hear that same message, that we know that we're saved by faith through grace, but how do we keep

And that we keep it with that, with the power that is in the gospel. Thank you. So, Tom, and then we'll go to Ward Plough. I also want to read a

And then also from Rogan, who I was earlier this week, I saw a buddy of mine who happens to be on the board. He said, remember this. Remember that when we say the Lord's Prayer, we pray this way, that thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory. And then he also reminded, remember that love covers a multitude of sins.

And that oftentimes the root of disputes and disagreements comes from broken love. So that reminder I pass on. I too enjoy a beautiful devotion and presentation and many speeches.

We heard a lot about the triune God, particularly the work of the Holy Spirit. You remember that John writes that God is love. So the Holy Spirit teaches us in love. The Holy Spirit makes known God's will here upon this earth. And as Luther writes, the Holy Spirit calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies by his name.

And also, the Holy Spirit lovingly rebukes because we need correction. Jesus speaks of this love. And if you remember that he says, men shall know that ye are my friends and that ye have love one for another. And no greater love hath man that he lay down his life for his friends, which is what Jesus did. And he said, as I have loved

Love you, so also love ye one another. The gospel preserves love. And here in God's kingdom, we hear the gospel. And we've heard from so many speeches how we personally feel individually we need the gospel. And we do. This is God's kingdom. And Jesus says, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Regardless of what the issues are, this is God's kingdom. And he's not going to leave us helpless or comfortless. But as we heard in the presentation, he's going to give unto us the Holy Ghost, the Comforter, which shall teach us all things that we want to know. Our doctrine teaches and ties together in a very precious unity conversion and repentance,

New birth and justification. And that justification occurs when we believe. Because we're justified before God through the merit of Christ. He sees us through the eyes of Christ. And so, he also gives unto us this new obedience. And when a child of God receives the gospel of the forgiveness of sins,

We want to leave the old life behind and to follow the bloody footsteps of our Lord and Savior in this new obedience that we wouldn't follow on our own, but only through the Holy Spirit. So with that new obedience also comes this admonition that we would put sin away. We would make not provision for

For the flesh. And as somebody mentioned earlier, there's a very certain chain of events that James writes about. And he says that lust, when it's conceived, bringeth forth sin. And sin, when it's done, bringeth forth death. So unforgiven sin brings forth death. And that's a very certain chain of events broken only by the power of the gospel. Through the Holy Spirit preached from God's kingdom.

forgiveness of sins in the name and blood of Jesus. He also gives unto us this precious gift of confession. It's not compulsory. It's a precious gift whereby we can endeavor to keep faith in a good conscience and put away from our conscience those matters that trouble us. Because as we've heard, it can be like a wound or a disease or a sickness. And

This precious grace gift of confession, which is, we could say, monitored through the office of the Holy Spirit, helps us, gives us strength, encouragement, guidance, comfort to continue on the way to heaven through this kingdom of grace.

And as we've heard so many times as we believe, there's only one. And there's only one doctrine, one faith, one kingdom. And we have been fortunate enough that God has called us so that we have heard this and we believe it. The gospel preserves love in grace and in truth. And in that order. And so...

We have to remember, we can't forget, because we're right in the midst of it, that God's kingdom is a battling kingdom. And as a battling kingdom, we hope and pray we don't want the enemy of souls to have any victories. But when he comes as divisions, when he comes as a foreign teaching,

This is the work of the Indian souls, and he's gaining footholds. And we hope and pray that he will not have such victories. And we flee sin, and we know that the dangers are on the right, of wrong-mindedness and self-righteousness, but also on the left, of permissiveness and leniency. And we know that, as we heard Jesus say, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. It's a narrow way.

That leads unto salvation. A narrow way. And the teaching is only one. There aren't. It's not like in the old days. All roads lead to Rome. Not all roads lead to heaven. There's only one road that leads to heaven. And we've been called to travel upon that. And follow the bloody footsteps of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As a battling kingdom.

We know, somebody mentioned this earlier, our adversary, our enemy, our opponent, the devil, walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. You think he's a very, very good worker? Yeah, he is. There's this story of an old preacher who never said anything bad about anybody or anything. So somebody, some guy stopped working with him.

And so they asked him, what do you think of the devil? And his answer was, he's a very diligent worker. And he is. The only way that we can battle against that, against sin, which is the second greatest power, is through the Holy Spirit, the gospel, the forgiveness of sins in the name and blood of Jesus. And so think it not strange concerning the fiery trial of your faith.

It's part of the journey that there is a battle. And you know, David spoke very clearly of this. Where is that? He says,

Make me to hear joy and gladness that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. Hide thy face from my sins and blot out all my iniquities. And please listen carefully to this. Because we've talked about the Holy Spirit. We've also talked about spirits. And some people have indicated a little bit of discomfort with that. Well, David says...

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Now, do we believe that? Yes, we do. This is what David said. And you know the circumstances. He'd been approached by Nathan about his affair with Bathsheba. So he said further on,

Cast me not away from thy presence and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. And isn't that a good reminder for us in prayer? We will have to take not thy Holy Spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation and uphold me with thy free spirit. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways and sinners shall be converted unto thee. God has a grace order.

And David spoke of that when he said what he said there. That first he wants his sins forgiven. He wants a correct spirit. Then he says, I will teach transgressors. It's very, very important that we believe that the Holy Spirit works in God's kingdom and is here today.

It's here with every congregation. So it's easy for any of us to get wound around the axle on something. And several have spoken of illness or disease or wounds or so on. There is healing and there's a cure. And it's not complicated. It's very, very simple and easy. It's the forgiveness of sins in the name and blood of Jesus.

And grace and forgiveness are inseparably tied together. And it's so important for the endeavor and for the journey of faith that we would keep faith and a good conscience. And as we've heard many times, how do we keep a good conscience? Because we soil it so often through the gospel of the forgiveness of sins in the name of the blood of Jesus. It's not a compulsory matter. It's

wonderful grace gift that you and I rejoice over that these horrible bad things that we've done can actually be forgiven and God doesn't see them I one time asked the kids at camp you know God sees everything he doesn't see our forgiven sins is what they responded

So God does not see those things that are forgiven. We don't want to carry them with us. They make the journey slow. You know, there was a Russian guy that went to services. And he came back the next time, six weeks later or so. And he greeted the people that were there. And somebody said, oh, when did you repent? And he said, well, the last time at services I heard you say that everybody could believe there's sins forgiven. And I believe mine forgiven.

And I really don't forgive them today. So, this gospel is very powerful. And even if there are those here at this gathering, and I don't know if there are, but if there are those here at this gathering that have felt, gee, you know, I've heard these things and some of these I have disputed, I've disagreed with, well...

And if one feels like, God, I'm in an opposition to this, or I've been mixed up in this or that, the gospel also is for you to believe all sins forgiven in the name and precious blood of Jesus. And this is a sure thing. Somebody mentioned earlier, by grace are you saved through faith, and that means we believe our sins forgiven. Today is the day of salvation.

And Jesus' sermon of repentance was simple. Follow me. Repent and believe the gospel. And that gospel is offered to anyone within hearing of this meeting that sins are forgiven in the name of the precious blood of Jesus. And if anybody needs to hear the gospel, it's me. Can you, dear fellow travelers, preach that gospel with me?

Thank you. Or, well, and then Neil, warning me. Certainly, heartwarming to be here. Definitely would like to relay the greetings of love and God's peace from all the believers there in Longview.

I think that was one of the things that was so comforting to me, to hear all the prayers and reminders, whether it was text messages or verbally in person, that we hear or remember the prayer throughout the whole time.

And just as a relatively new board member, perhaps it wasn't the focus of today, but I would say that one thing that's been nice for me is to see the emphasis on me as a servant. One of the things that guides us and that the Holy Spirit guides us to do is to edify the congregation, to edify the body of Christ. That's been...

an ounce of understanding but certainly as nice as was mentioned earlier that there's so many gifts in God's kingdom that even when something is very complex or complex explanation it seems like through discussion even I can figure out

what something might mean when folks are explaining it. But particularly that fourth point there, when the Holy Spirit gathers the congregation of Christ and makes its members to each other and edifies it as the body of Christ, this speaks to me as a board member that I hope that in the work that I attempt to do, that I can keep that as a fresh in my mind. And one thing...

I was just visiting a couple weeks ago in services with one of the other board members sitting right behind me. Some of you who may know me know I'm a bit of a technical Neanderthal and don't have a smartphone, but one thing I have noticed in using a songbook is that I love seeing the dates, especially on the words that are written. Some of these songs come from the 1500s, and to me, it

again, speaks of the power of the Holy Spirit that someone 300 years ago, 500 years ago, wrote something that speaks to me today and refreshes and it blessed me today. I just thought I would share a little bit. I distinctly remember my little bit of

Interesting that Neil is speaking after me because in a sermon in Outlook in 2004, he reminded me to look at the words of the Psalms. And obviously that was something I needed to hear. I knew I needed to hear that at that time because I...

sermon, we sang Psalm now, Psalm number 487. I wasn't feeling so great. I wasn't excited to be at services. My heart was so down. I think when we sang verse 6, that when my sins are preached forgiven, peace my restless soul can own. For this word has come from heaven, quickened by the Holy Ghost.

I dare say that all of us have felt that joy and warmth from the gospel. And even in singing that song, it sure lifted me there. It gave me strength to put sin away. Even that day, all of a sudden, services turned into a wonderful place to be. And then, again, like I said, 15 years later, I've been looking at songs for a long time, and it feels like

Not quite half of my life, but close. And one other song that's really become close to me, particularly when my mom passed away a couple years ago, seemed to appropriate some of the words in that song, number 555. Today when we're talking about the congregation, the first verse says, O hearken, dear friends, most beloved, this flock on earth is so dear.

When children have peace with their father, their hearts do not tremble in fear. It's a song about everlasting life. I'm going to read a couple more verses. When sins in the blood are forgiven, forever washed away from the heart, no longer accused by the conscience, the children can freely depart. To our brother who spoke earlier about his two sons with diabetes that

When our sins are put away and washed away, whether we wake up in the morning isn't important. Even if we didn't, we would gain the victory. But then, in verse 6, something that carries through day by day. When the heavenly trumpets are sounding, that I will be granted to see

That faith, though so weak, leads to victory. In heaven the glory will be. And yet one more. So listen, beloved, a moment when weakness is troubling you. If you will not ever leave Jesus, then Jesus will never leave you. And just so comforting that

We want to put our sin away and we want to stay close to Jesus. We may have that promise that then we'll be having acceptable and we can make it home to heaven. Certainly I would say that. It's been wonderful and uplifting for my own life of faith. Certainly didn't come with

So if there are any others that wish or would like to be reassured with the gospel, keep your brothers and sisters. Thank you, Neil. And then after Neil, we'll sing Neil's song and go on. Neil, warning me.

Before I was taking my turn, I asked, why did I fall off the board? I said, well, can I get to also hear the gospel? We've heard about believing as a child, and it's truly the scripture of it.

A brother was telling me about a discussion he had where they were talking about reading scripture and he lamented to the other that he hasn't read a lot and he doesn't understand the doctrine so well.

And that, but he believes according to the teaching of the congregation. And the reply was a shocking, well that's not enough. And so I thought when I heard that,

Is it coming to that that reading scripture is becoming a work amongst many in this world, or most of all?

scripture but we've heard here what saves one is a living faith and to believe as a child believes and of course in God's kingdom it's always been an encouragement that we would read God's word as it is the highest authority

But it seems that with something that's become this way that I must become enlightened. Maybe the enlightenment is only through my reading and not through the understanding that is given through the Holy Spirit in God's congregation. We should all have this prayer that

My understanding of Scripture is that of the congregation of God and not that I would be off on my own and understanding contrary to God's congregation. Then I would also like to mention one thing that appeared

the letter that was sent by email a week ago. One item in there was concerning seeing into the heart of a person. And it was the writer's feeling that the children, are the children of God the

beginning to examine the hearts of others. And do they think that they can examine? I don't remember his words, but it was to that effect. And I have never heard, when we've discussed these matters, that anyone feels they have the ability to see into the hearts as Jesus does.

But we heard in our lesson that the Holy Spirit guides and leads. And also we heard in the lesson that from the fruits of a person they have known, it can be revealed by God what kind of a heart the person has who we are speaking to. And

If it is so that the gospel is not preached, but it's because the Holy Spirit has revealed it, then it is according to God's will. I have thought of a verse found in the third chapter of 2 Timothy

It's a chapter that talks about the perilous times at the end. And amongst other things, it says, having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. And you know, it seems to me sad to say of many people

and begin to deny the power of the Holy Spirit that dwells in God's congregation. The Holy Spirit, as we heard, is the third person of the Godhead, and it dwells in the children of God. We don't want to diminish that Spirit that dwells in God's congregation.

And there is something at the end of this verse that is a warning to those who are seeing things contrary to God's congregation. From such turn away, a time comes when one is contrary to God and His congregation that

We are no longer in his kingdom, no longer being cared for by the holy church of God. It is a time now that it is like when the five angels of the churches of Asia Minor were still in the right hand

That matters to them now well. And Jesus was still caring for them. Now is the time when God's congregation is caring for you. Don't reject God's call.

Well, I think it would be awful long to have a tape recorder.

O come, thee, O praise the Lord, with vermin hearts bowing before thee. O come, thee, O bless thee to see this day.

O Lord, Thou hast blessed us abundantly. How did our dear friends just grow by our deeds? O Father, we praise and extol Thee.

As thou dost provide for our early needs, dear Father, in thy tender mercy, O nourish

is is

How's the fish? Good. I haven't seen her for a long time. What are you going to do? I'll do it. Where's the water from the towel? That's a bummer.

How are you? Good. Absolutely.

Thank you.

So we have quite a few names on the list here.

The first three on the list are Josh Hyman, Gary, Tiffany, and Jeremy Humbert. Did he leave? Okay. So then it looks like Will Randall. The order is the first three there. Now thanks for everyone that stayed here for this very important meeting.

first i would like to say that as many others have already expressed the devotion this morning the presentation that was here many of the comments that have been made so

It's been, I think, several hours now since I had raised my hand, so there's been many comments that have been made and a lot of thoughts that have run through my mind, and hopefully I can maybe express some of those things ahead. Thank you.

this word of caution that we would be careful that we wouldn't belittle this document because it is a confession of faith as its title. And I guess there's a part of me that would say I would agree that we should be careful with maybe the words that we use in describing this letter, but we also need to call it

what it is. When I received that email, I was in the process of working on Bible class lessons, so my mind was tied

The title on that document is Confession of Faith. And I would say it is that. But I cannot say that it is a confession of living faith. The understandings that are described in there

would confess the faith that I claimed to have when I was an unbeliever. Many of those points in there answer to the mind of man, but they do not agree with the Holy Spirit. And it seemed to me that in the beginning, maybe some of the thoughts and understandings were a little subtle,

moved through that document that they were not so subtle. Then I reached the portion where it talked about confession and the putting away of sin. And I have to say that as I read that paragraph, tears started rolling down my face.

And as I read about how if we talk about putting away a sin, being this, that we would confess those matters in order to put away those sins. That private confession then becomes a work, a work of man in an attempt to merit

righteousness before God. And I felt a tightening around my heart that here somebody is trying to tell me that I can no longer use private confession. And I could feel the constraints of sin

And that same binding and shackles that had me wrapped up in unbelief beginning to wrap around me again. Confession does not save us. We know that.

But as we've heard so many times already today, confession is a beautiful, beautiful gift that our gracious Heavenly Father has given to every single one of us individually for us to be able to put away those matters that besets. I cannot agree with the thought that was expressed in there

that when the Holy Spirit prompts me, encourages me to put away those things that are on my heart and conscience, that are contrary to the teaching of God and the Holy Spirit, I cannot agree that that is a work. What led me into unbelief

was believing that those things did not need to be cared for. I've had many other thoughts that have been in my mind today. My heart has rejoiced.

clearly and lovingly and through many different voices and many different gifts. And one thing I think for all of us, it's good to remember that if these matters are to be opened in an individual's heart, it's God that does the opening. And I say that from my own experience after our brother from Prescott Valley had

spoken earlier that sparked a memory from some years ago when I was in unbelief. I didn't ask Kenny Ouellette if I could tell his story, but I think he was probably gracious enough to not hold it against me. My dear brother Kenny Ouellette is sitting next to me, and I call him my dear brother because he is so special to me.

He remembered me when I was in . He had been up in this area for speaker's camp, and my mom happened to be in town at the same time. Kenny had asked if he could come and visit, so my mother and Ken had come. And we spoke at length, my mother and Ken and myself and my wife.

God was there through the Holy Spirit in those two believing individuals that were sitting in our home, preaching about the way to heaven, encouraging and asking time after time after time. I think all of you know how animated sometimes Ken can get. I remember him sitting there asking me, don't you want to believe?

I had the answer to that, yes. But I can't right now. God had not opened my heart yet at that time. It was sometime after that when my wife and I were able to receive the grace of repentance at Easter services and another dear brother, Tom Crawford, was there speaking.

The doors to God's kingdom were opened for us. In the gospel that was preached that morning to my wife and I, to cleanse us from even that sin of unbelief, is the same gospel message that I needed to hear over and over and over again.

Because I think as all of us experience in our lives of faith that as we journey day by day, it seems that our lives are, spiritual lives remain like a rugged contour map full of peaks and valleys. Where it seems in one moment we can be full of joy and

Our faith is strong that in the next moment we're weak and dying. And in need of that same gospel. One other point that had been in my mind was when our brother Scott Simonson had spoke

And he mentioned about finger pointing. At first I'll say that for myself, when I've felt fingers pointing, I've had matters on my conscience that need to be cared for. And secondly, through a lot of these discussions over the years,

These matters of confusion and wrong understanding have been brought up. And the believing children of God have approached these matters in weakness and humbleness and mixed thoughts and jumbled words. The response many times has been, when you speak that way, I can't understand what you're asking me.

But ask direct questions. Ask the hard questions. I'll be willing to answer. And so when God gives words then for those questions to be asked, difficult questions, pointed questions, direct comments, addressing matters that are there before us,

comments and responses on both ends of the spectrum add to the confusion. At least for me it does. Because then I'm left wondering, how do we approach? And how do we speak of these matters that are before us?

God's word is a two-edged sword. God's word either heals or defends. It's the same word that's preached. It is not two different words from God that's preached, but it is one word. The word of God that is preached, being a two-edged sword, is not a two-edged sword because

it is because of the condition of the heart of the listener. When one is humble and seeking, and desiring to be in the fellowship of the believers, God's word, as it is preached, is a comfort. It has healing power.

it instructs us, lifts us up, guides us. When it matters on our conscience, matters that need to be cared for, God's word can feel offensive. And so I think it's been mentioned

many times already it's important that we would examine the hearts of ourselves. I've had a lot of mixed feelings about this thought of this letter that's been sent out. But one thought that has stuck with me, that in some ways it's

It's been good for this reason that it explains exactly what we've been hearing. Many of the issues that are touched on in there are the issues that we've been dealing with. And it explains exactly the incorrect understanding of the individuals that wrote it.

I for myself cannot say that this is a document that has been written in accordance with God's Word. And I know the title is Confession of Faith, but I've been left with this thought in my mind that it seems to me that it's more of a statement of position.

We know that there are two different understandings at this time in God's Kingdom on many different matters. But we know also that the Holy Spirit only teaches one correct understanding. And I would say that, from my perspective at least, the experiences I've had in my life,

But that today isn't the reason I cannot agree with that particular document. I don't believe that it is the voice of the Holy Shepherd. I don't believe that it's the voice of the Holy Spirit. But it comes from a very troubled and confused heart. And so, I guess my feelings are that if

If your heart agrees with that letter, it will caution you that you are in a dangerous place. Following the teachings and understandings of that document will not lead you to heaven's shore.

I think there would probably be many more comments if I sat here long enough, but I would just like to simply ask if I can have my many sins and doubts revealed.

Okay, Gary, Tiffany, I'll just go through the list here so you can remember that. Gary, Tiffany, Will Randall, Brian Johnson, Dale Johnson, Blair Karenamee, Ray Ornamee, Mara Wittenberg, Don Latte, Ray Mokopola, Ben Ornamee, Daniel Graingroth, Leslie Leto, Tom Crawford, Keith Ornamee.

I guess first of all I want to echo the thoughts of

in my heart said amen to the devotion here this morning and the presentation. I don't know how else to say it, so I'll say that that's how I believe. This is what was brought out in that presentation. I would say also that, as others have said,

If somebody feels that maybe their heart couldn't say amen to that presentation, believe differently, that could be a dangerous place to be. There's freedom to ask.

And that would be my encouragement. Having grown up in an unbelieving home, I visited many churches as an unbelieving adult. And many different beliefs were taught there. The last church I was in as an unbeliever,

was the first one that ever presented the concept of salvation to me. And I was given an incorrect teaching there that I could pray to God and be saved. And I don't know if I need to go into that a whole lot other than there are some that still

I recently made a trip to Arizona. I drove down there with my two daughters and visited my biological dad and step-mom there. They're up in years now, but my dad still wanted to tell me that when I prayed with that pastor that I had become saved. Well, I know him quite well, and

We've had at least a friendship my entire life. And I could tell kind of where he was coming from that day. He wasn't in a place where he sometimes is where he wants to hear about my church. So I chose not to talk, and I think God guides that.

And it's my hope and prayer that we can visit with Paul soon again and I can share more of how my church believes. But it didn't feel, it felt like it was going to be an argument, and that's why I just didn't go there. I'm not sure why, but God guides those things. Trying to remember my other thoughts here. So that's...

When I first met Elasadi, I was taught that faith comes by hearing. I was told the words of the Gospel, and at some point God granted me grace to believe those words, and that's how I believe today, is that faith comes by hearing. We are saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.

The sins are forgiven that way. In Hebrews, it teaches us to come boldly to the throne of grace in time of need. I take that to mean that when we fall into sin, we ask for those sins forgiven and have them forgiven by the gospel. And that's how we do it. Another important thing that I think has been brought out is not only the sins that we fall into that God sees, but the other things we don't see. And I think we're all in those situations

I want to try to phrase this, but even with small concepts, I don't want to believe differently than believers do. So it is a privilege that we

said in this way

don't want to show our feelings, but we can't anymore. So it's perfect. So that's some of those thoughts. The other thought, I guess, that I had was for those that maybe I guess there's a few that I don't need to name names, but there's a few that I want to remind you of. At least to me, there's probably more that I've been concerned about in terms of perhaps competing

freedom there. My encouragement to those that have been approached with concern over confusion or wrong understanding, I guess I could be corrected if I'm wrong, but my encouragement would be to, and I have told some, to go to as many believers as you can and

with believers, even ones that you don't regularly visit with, and ask for the gospel. And then maybe even have strength and

I guess during these times, myself, I've even wondered, maybe I have a wrong understanding. The enemy of souls doesn't leave any of us alone, and I don't think there's any harm in any one of us asking for a wrong understanding of forgiveness. I think I've taught Sunday school before, and certain lessons I didn't fully understand, and I don't know how perfect I can have that kind of a wrong understanding of forgiveness as well. So I guess that would be my encouragement

to go to as many believers as they can and just speak of faith matters and speak of understandings. Somebody mentioned it earlier today, to not be concerned about who's right and wrong. Talking about the forgiveness of sins in the name of God.

And I know even with my own children, this thought came to me earlier today, I had only three children, but I don't want to use their names, but often when two of them are fighting, it's been kind of a... At first they make fun of it, but now they kind of understand what I'm saying when I say it. I would just tell them. I don't want to use their names, so I just say...

Sorry, child one. Sorry, child two. Will you forgive me? Will you forgive me? And they apologized to each other and asked for forgiveness. And it didn't always matter. Usually they were both at fault. One of them just looked at the other one the wrong way or whatever it was. But it doesn't always matter if it was right or wrong. What matters is we cleared the air between each other. And that's another thing that I think is important that as a... When I was...

First believing, and I was an unbeliever even. I know there were times in my life that I had offended somebody and maybe even raised my voice or whatever the matter was, whether it was in the workplace or whatever. And I wanted to apologize and ask for forgiveness from that person. I felt that I had been cold to them. I don't have a right to talk to people the way that I talk to that person or whatever the case might be. And so...

I was trying to emphasize the point that we don't have to get hung up on who was right or who was wrong as much. Just because I go up to somebody and say, hey, what do you bless me? I don't have to worry that I gave them the upper hand in life or something like that. I just feel that I want to clear the air. It doesn't mean that they were 100% right and I was 100% wrong. I don't have to worry about the percentages. The matter is that

There's been offense. We want to clear that up. So I encourage any that might have some kind of wrong understanding to think of those kinds of matters, too. What have been your interactions with other believers through the years? Just one final thought, I guess. Probably would be many, but...

I'm not sure how to say this, but I can't, North Americans, I believe, from my understanding, it's probably over 150, whatever it is, I've heard the number. I guess we're very blessed in that way. It doesn't mean that, their human beings doesn't mean they can't care, and it does happen, of course.

But I can't imagine a single minister where, if they were being asked to rest, that that would be a problem with me, because we have so many ministers. There are some that I'm closer to, naturally, that I've visited with very personal matters in my life.

I have to admit that it might be challenging to hear that, but I thought, well, I'd have to think, well, if that's what the congregation feels, then maybe that's what they need for their life of faith right now. So just had those kinds of thoughts. I don't remember if I asked for the gospel in the beginning, but I certainly...

Our thoughts are so close. I know somebody recently had shared that sometimes when they, their last thoughts when they're going to bed may have been some of these concerns that we've had lately, and sometimes they're the first thoughts in the morning. I've had that too, when you first wake up, the first thoughts.

Even when I was in Arizona at Glendale, one brother and I were visiting about this, and he had the same thought. Sometimes he feels at peace with it, and then the end of his soul says, leave us alone. Later then, and it's happened with me sometimes when I first wake up in the morning, and I'm all concerned about it. We did that wrong. We didn't do that right. And

But these decisions have to be made one way or the other. We have to trust in God's guidance. Just for my meeting notes and weaknesses, I want to ask if I can hear the gospel. Okay, next on the list is Will Randall. Is he...

I must not be in the room here anyways, but so then Brian Johnson would be next.

This morning, the prayer was that God would be merciful, gracious, loving, forgiving unto us. He answered that prayer. Then I asked further that prayer that he would help those who have a different understanding, a different way to help them.

Okay, I'm going to need to see their faults. I don't know if that's happening. But you can tell me. But he has messed with us so far this day.

My father-in-law has translated some Finnish articles for me years ago. I stuck them in a folder and had to pull them out. One was by Lauri Toskala. It was called Journey of the Fire Tribe. Something like that.

In there, he speaks of spiritual order, and he says that we should be careful to take care of one another with the spirit of neediness.

He also, in that article, learned the danger of growing within yourselves, which is easy for us to do, and that there's a danger that we become an idol to ourselves and that we begin to become self-sufficient on our own and convince ourselves of what to do.

this happens, there's danger because Peter in the Bible says, Peter wrote this way, be subject one to another and be clothed with humility for God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. So, God doesn't like those who become proud of themselves and with great pride. So, we

There was another sermon that my father-in-law had translated from Finnish. And in there, the brother said that there was people back in Finland that were following speakers that had erred. They were following personalities.

And so much that some of them said that, well, if the preacher brothers go to hell, we'll follow them. Follow wherever they go. So this is a dark and dangerous avenue to follow.

He had said in the sermon that he himself was somewhat frustrated why he could allow these conditions to last so long. And I felt that way too myself. How come God is allowing these things to go on? I think it's taught me the love and patience of God, that he is so loving and so full and gracious in forgiving him.

a year ago, a summer of all the years that the city said that some sort of settlement going on. And I followed this one speaker on the back of the boat. I said, look, he's served so many years. He served the late 40s and 50s. And I said, what happened to him in the 60s? I guess he's not speaking anymore. He didn't pass away. My father said, no, he found him on the lake during the 1960s.

We heard this today, that by a child of faith, we need to believe. So, I just recently had a discussion with some here who are of a different understanding, a different mind, yet today, my heart is saddened that they see this event,

I asked them to stay and be free and speak what's on their heart and mind and they said,

This topic of personal offenses between brothers. I've had a number of conversations with people that seem to think we can't somehow or another, even though at the doctrine sometimes we'd be somehow or another get to the same level, but it seems like there's this lingering thought in my mind sometimes that why can't we be honest and

And, you know, personally, sometimes, because I'm flush and blood, I fall. And, you know, even in some conversations about matters of faith, I can become impatient. And so there's a need to care for that between the brothers.

But it seems to me that some of these things are not personal matters, but they're matters. They're being critical of the understanding of God's kingdom, rather than my personal faith is in unity with the congregation.

So when somebody has a different view, it seems like that's against the congregation. That's a view against the congregation. And it so happens to be that I might be speaking to them. And so it's my impatience with the situation. That's my sin between me and the other. But this other sin is between the congregation and God. That's how I believe. Yeah. I'm Dale Johnson from Phoenix.

at this presentation this morning, and the discussion has been very unwieldy. And I'd have to say that a few weeks or maybe a couple, two, three months ago, I didn't consider coming to this camp. I was asked about it, and at the time, I said, well, I really didn't.

understand the problems too much. I didn't see that too much in Phoenix, but then started getting phone calls and conversations with having to do with a lot of those topics that were in that letter and trying to, you know, explain and talk about those matters to try to clear them up and

and so forth, and then my wife encouraged me, like you can hear in a lot of cases, wives encourage their husbands to come to these camps, and I decided that I should come, and then of course this letter came out, and it's troubling. There were certainly things about it that troubled me,

I know that, you know, in God's kingdom that we do have the freedom to write. Oftentimes we have that freedom to write and send in perhaps an article to The Voice Design, but we also know too that those articles are reviewed and discussed and so forth before they... And if there's any wrong understandings that they would be...

you know, taken care of before any type of article would be published. But in a case like this, it goes out and it gets around and it's troubling. But like one brother said that it does bring some of these issues right out in the open. And they are troubling matters.

In the presentation today, we heard how Jesus brought about grace and truth. And we know that grace and truth have to be in that word. And that God offers grace.

sinner then can repent from their sins and have an absolution to the gospel of forgiveness of sins. And that one portion in God's word that I was thinking of is this in 1 Peter 2.2 that as newborn babes

desire the sincere milk of the word that you may grow thereby.

as we've heard it. And that milk is that word of God. It's that truth that is spoken of here when we say that Jesus is grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. We all partake of that milk from the mother congregation.

And it speaks here, it talks of newborn babes, yet even as children of God, we need to be humble as a little child in this kingdom. And we need that sincere milk of the word. The penitent says that he may grow old.

we're referring God's Word is referring of course to our faith that we can be rooted and grounded in our faith and that our faith will be

kept in our hearts and that we can grow within God's kingdom in that spiritual way, not in that way that can come forth from the flesh, the pride of the flesh, to where we begin to take that knowledge that we have or that

gifts and put ourselves above the congregation but rather we would want to remain as humble children of God accepting this sincere love and that we could remain in faith I think about these magistrates

heard that feel that there are some that are growing in this word they want this word to be to be more than than what what it is and we know that this word to the child of God is comfort

for a dying soul it gives us that peace of God and it leads us on that narrow way of life that leads to heaven and so if there be even anyone here today that perhaps has heard what has been said and

and it troubles you, and that you would, again, consider this matter, that God's grace and his mercy is offered, and that if someone has a wrong understanding, or if someone is in a condition where sin is now ruling your hearts, that

They can be free. This is the best place to talk about these matters. We've heard many speak of how this presentation today, how it felt so good and how their spirit answered amen to it. Yet, we haven't heard, and perhaps there are none here,

But if there are some, this is the place to discuss it. This is the place to bring out these matters and to speak of it. And we hope and pray. And that's the thing, too, is that we have to pray over these matters. I remember even when I made repentance from the world that...

that the gospel was explained unto me, how one could receive the grace of repentance. And I was in that condition where I had a lot of questions, a lot of reasons why I wouldn't want to accept this gospel, yet I went home.

And I prayed over these matters and asked God to reveal the truth. And then the next day I was able to receive the grace of repentance. And it was necessary to humble myself, to put all of those other beliefs aside and believe that which was preached by those dear brothers in faith.

But even coming here to this camp, he came with a lot of fears and it wasn't easy on my flesh and I would want to ask and I believe

um i don't know how late we're gonna we're gonna wanna go here but i would just uh i don't know if i i can take the liberty to say this but um

If there are those that feel that they have, for some reason or another, been singled out or somehow or another have felt that their fingers have been pointed at them personally or whatever it may be, I would encourage you to raise your hand and you could take a turn to speak either maybe now or...

Not that, you know, we would use it for any other reason than, so that we could give clarity to the confusion that has existed here. Roger, Kalioki, Pat, Pat and Elle, Pat Lake and Elle Lake. Can we take it in that order? Okay.

Roger Elioki Wolf Lake. First of all, thank you, Kurt. I wanted to, I was going to shout out there, and I don't wish to step on somebody else's speaking turn, but obviously, as we're all here awfully late in the evening, we had assumed that this would have been over.

a long drive yet to get home, as perhaps some of you others do, so I thought we'd shout out, but Kirk was gracious enough to maybe expedite for sake of time. As many of you ponder what a person should say, and over a course of a long

Meeting then, there are many thoughts that come to mind and many speeches, even individual speeches that a person may have some thoughts on and I didn't have opportunity to write any of them down. But having said that, perhaps I will try to, in some ways, speak what has been on my mind.

First of all, there has been many positive commentaries to Huddy's presentation that he gave already many hours ago. I have to say that I've been disappointed in some speeches here today that they have almost implied that there would be some who disagree. I think that this is dangerously presumptive.

I have to say that Hadi's presentation is good and it is correct and right and was presented in such a way that is in the mind of Christ and according to the scriptures. Other comments have also been made about this recent document that many of you have seen and I will say that there is nothing wrong with that document.

very well. But regardless of that, my heart has said an amen to what it attempts to bring out. And so I don't want to spend too much time on those points because I won't be able to even remember them all.

I'd like to also speak a little bit to what Scott had mentioned about, and this is also discussed in the document that these two brothers have written, of justification and by faith alone. And he had made a statement along these lines that if we can believe at this moment that by faith our sins are forgiven, period,

If we can concur and agree that this is correct teaching according to Scripture, then we will not have any division. But what happens then if we say that we believe by grace alone the Father, or that if, or an end? Apostle Paul writes that it is another doctrine.

the law. See how it is, dear brothers, how simple and how easily the enemy of Saul can put us under the law. This is not something that is foreign to the child of God that one can wish in some way to add to the merit of work that has been done.

We can say in this world that there are much those kind of faiths that say that they always wish to act. It was always something of themselves. We have very Russian blood in the Old Heaven and therefore are corrupt and can also

I'd like to also, and I have spoken of this already one time, I believe before, in the previous meeting that was held in Manila on the 12th of a few months back. And I heard it.

Many speeches at that Envy Rack meeting last November that were troublesome to us. Many. What was troublesome was it began to start to say that there are some of a false spirit. And unfortunately, today, the same...

Dangerous type talk is openly and cavalierly used and some are in a false spirit. Do we not then understand, dear brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, that if we say of another that they are in a false spirit or that the Holy Spirit is not in them,

you are saying that some are not child of God. Because there are only two spirits, the spirit of light, which is of God, and the spirit of darkness, which is of Satan. Now,

We can concur that there are many types of wrong spirits, I suppose. There's lenient spirits, dry spirits, self-righteous spirits, but all of them are of Satan. I have to say that I have been disappointed by many, many speeches today that have used this kind of very divisive,

Is it that some of you do not understand that it is not possible to be in one's faith life controlled and governed by a false spirit and at the same time be said to be a brother in faith? It isn't so. I think that it would behoove us to be careful. Some of you have neglected this

that you say that some are in false spirit, you need to repent of false spirit.

I don't recall particularly, but there was one speech here today that made reference that it's time to chase the wolves today. Ask yourself, is this right or wrong? Jesus said that his chosen nation, which was the children of Israel and the Jews,

I would have gathered you like a chicken hand does some chicks, but you do not. Did Jesus say of these disobedient and stiff-necked people that it ought to drive it away? We have been attempting to discuss these matters

in Zion and particularly in the Zion of Minnesota for some years I have articulated in other meetings and I'll do again it is apparent that nothing good will come unless we ask

to come from Finland and to help us to construct it. And would love to discuss these matters. I have felt, as we all have, no doubt about this, that when there is this kind of division,

It is easy when we carry this corruptible portion, and we will carry it until we pass from this earth, that we can dry ourselves up in going round and round, meeting after meeting, year after year, until

And I have suggested, and I will do again, that I can concur, or I think I speak freely of, perhaps on behalf of most of the mind that I have, that it is not time to ask unofficially that the brothers from Finland be who they may be.

would come here to our Zion here in North America. And I'm not talking about a few days for two weeks, but an extended stay that together we could discuss openly and freely

could help us with those brothers and sisters from far away who perhaps have not been, as Tom Stewart earlier said, can happen to us so easily that we become wrapped around the axle. I would strongly encourage the LLC office of brothers and board members

I don't believe that after four years of this kind of attempts and meetings with no change of heart, no change of mind, perhaps on both sides a hardening of positions, that we can solve these matters by ourselves. That's all that I have.

First, I'd like to say that this is the first meeting that I have attended like this as I moved to the board. And it has troubled me to hear so many

We have discussed correctly many times that the three are one. God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. What came to my mind was this verse here in John 16. It's,

But whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak. And he will shew you things to come. And I thought maybe I would explain it myself, but I would prefer to read what Luther has written on that verse. It's not real long. And it says this, cling to the word. Here Christ makes the Holy Spirit a preacher.

so that we do not create up to heaven for him, as the unstable spirits and visionary enthusiasts do, and separate him from the spoken word or the ministry, but learn and know that he will be by and with the word and lead us into all truth through it. For there is no other way or means to experience the comfort and strength

who have long since ascended into the clouds far above all scripture and set themselves under the wings of the holy spirit but far too often experience

has taught me that when the devil catches me outside the scripture when i begin to roam around with my thoughts and flutter heavenward he brings me to the point where i do not know what is to become of god or of me christ therefore wants this truth so tied down that we put

I have heard many speeches about the congregation spirit. And yes, the spirit is in the congregation. But it is also tied directly to the word. The spirit does not teach anything that the word, other than what Christ has taught. And I guess that's what's on my mind. Okay.

I guess my thoughts were back to Huddy's presentation. My heart said amen to that to begin with. Also to this letter that's been spoken about, my heart said amen to that also. And I know that there's been some fairly strong language here about spirits.

wrong spirits, false spirits. There's also been comments about being doctrinally incorrect. One statement was that this continuous forgiveness is a doctrinally incorrect stance. Maybe I got the wording slightly off. But I'll tell you that I personally do believe in continual forgiveness. I believe that my sins are forgiven at every moment.

And I think this is a good thing. It's on the merit works of Jesus Christ. He's my Savior. Christ truly died for me. And I believe it. And that's how simple my faith is. I believe it. Every second of it.

Thank you for at least giving your views here. You know, for one, I'm not certain. I'm assuming that the brothers from the LLC are in almost daily visitation with the design of Finland.

It's the same spirit that works here in America as it works in Finland. And I don't think there's any opposition to having the Finnish brothers help us. And I'm assuming they've probably counseled probably with the brothers in Finland on our current situation.

quite often. And then also we do have brothers and sisters that have come from Finland and I'm assuming they haven't changed their views since they've come to America and also are somewhat troubled by the current situation here in North American Zion. But we do have a list of

So people here, is there any others that wanted to take a turn to speak that felt otherwise minded or somehow felt singled out or whatever you mean?

I think in the beginning, first, Eric Mitova, right before the lunch hour, he mentioned that there's a board and speakers that, and rightfully so, that we are kind of united and

He mentioned that he hears these sermons that they don't answer to his spirit and that other congregations or boards have taken care of those ministers and sat them down. And so then he mentioned that our board has neglected to take down our speaker brothers.

And I haven't heard what concerns have come out that the Spirit doesn't answer. Besides, the Spirit doesn't answer. And some people have said the Spirit doesn't answer, but they can't explain doctrine. They don't have those understandings. The Spirit doesn't answer. I think if we separate the Spirit from the Word...

And we separate spirit from doctrine, and doctrine is the teaching of justification, which is the most important article of our faith. How are we justified? So I would like to hear those. First, I was a little troubled by that our board was neglected. Our congregation called the servants.

There have been some boards that have, in my mind, elevated above the congregations and took speakers down without really consulting the congregation. So in my mind, boards with speakers have become elevated above the congregation. So that's troubling. We heard that advice that our board needs to care for our speakers. It's our congregation's duty.

And the congregation calls brothers to serve. And if there's genuine concern, it must reveal that. And in Harry's presentation, I also said it was very scriptural, which is good and correct.

And in one portion he said that we must know the scripture when we hear that we could criticize because we know the word of God that we could then be able to critique. We could even find that slide in there that discern it if the speaker brother is speaking according to God's word. That is the place of every believer in the kingdom. Speaker brothers can't hear. And

It's danger in my mind when boards are taking these actions. And again, I would like to understand, there's a lot of talk about the spirit doesn't answer to the letter that was written by the brothers in Phoenix.

that there's troubles or confusion, clouds of confusion. That's a pretty common term that's applied to Wolf Lake and to our entire congregation. But what is the cloud of confusion? I would like some to explain this cloud of confusion and maybe why that spirit does not answer to our dear speaker brothers who I believe have spoken

In truth and in the mind of Christ with those gifts that God has given them. And we had a meeting in Managa fairly recently. I spoke my heart and the whole meeting has been transcribed word for word and I'm okay if everybody reads what I have said.

And there was some comments made there that were quite troubling. And as somebody here recently said, that we cannot put our own works into our salvation. And there was a comment that was made, and I actually tried to clarify, is this what you meant? That it's equally as important to speak about the righteousness of life as it is the righteousness of faith.

And that is a works-based doctrine. Righteousness of faith. When that is granted, the fruits will follow. Then, as it says in Scripture, we endeavor to live soberly, righteously in this life. And there's a lot of discussion around confession, and I think everybody here agrees it's a grace gift from God.

And it's a privilege. And it also can help unburden us. But it is not to be used as a tool or a means that we would achieve salvation or that God has sent his son to die on our behalf.

He died on the cross for the sin of the whole world. And that if we believe that, but yet we have to then maybe, like I say, do our own part to, you know, put sin away in the act of, like, confession that it somehow becomes mandatory. And I think there's a...

It's an interesting distinction, but I do believe it's very important. And I think Ulyas, I've read this quote before, wrote on this that said, Confession is a God-given gift to us that helps us in our endeavor of faith.

We go to make confession just as much as a believer as when we return. The word of absolution that belongs to confession has simply freed our consciences from heavy burdens. The performance of confession does not cleanse our consciences, but belief in the word of absolution. God does not cleanse our hearts by confession, but by faith. Luther concludes the above-mentioned exhortation,

to confession thus. Therefore, when I urge you to go to confession, I am simply urging you to be a Christian. And I think it's very well known by the portion that we are justified by faith through grace alone. And that is the key article of our justification.

And I just thought I would read just one portion from Ephesians. Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood.

But against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore, take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, having done all to stand. Stand therefore, having your moined spirit about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness.

And I just thought that this is important to consider that it says above all, taking on the shield of faith. So faith is what comes first.

And this is what can quench all those fiery darts that come from the enemy. And the sword of the Spirit, when we speak of the Spirit, it says here clearly, the sword of the Spirit, it is the Word. When we battle against these principalities and powers, we are using God's Word as the sword.

And I would just again ask that if those that have felt concerns with maybe me or personally, if there's been offenses, or with our Lord, that they could come and speak to us. And I want to ask for forgiveness. Could you, brothers, bless me? We also ask for your forgiveness.

I also encourage that we could all look to the author and finisher of our faith, the Lord Jesus Christ, as he looked on the other male factor on the cross, and he said that today thou shalt be with me in paradise. Okay. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We just go with our list as we have it.

um i was reading uh somewhere recently there was a book published from the srk and was the two birds on the cover and you know it was just touching on some of the past heresies and the things of those heresies and it seems like confession oftentimes comes up in some of these these uh

But in there, it said, and I thought it was said so clearly, at least to me, it says that it's not compulsory. In fact, I can't make it compulsory for you. But personally, your conscience has been cared for.

your conscience makes, it almost makes it compulsory for you to care for those wounds that are on your conscience. So it becomes the personal thing that your conscience almost makes the requirement for you to take care of it. And when it's working properly, that is something

So, Blair Carey, me, and greetings from Spokane, everyone. Just trying to gather my thoughts in. I remember about four or five hours ago that I raised my hand, so I immediately regretted raising my hand as soon as I did. Okay.

A big part of the reason I had the undergrad was I began to fear that I might speak incorrectly. But then I realized that if I ever wanted to speak incorrectly, this would be the place to do it.

So maybe I'll just start with a confession of how I believe. And I do think that it is

It is simple. Our faith is simple in that we believe that we are saved by grace through faith. And that's in Scripture, and I think that's pretty clear, and I don't feel like there's any disagreement to that. I would expand on that and say that I do feel that

As a believer, I live in the forgiveness of Christ every moment. And to me, that is what grace is. That's what God's grace is to us, is that we can freely believe that our sins are forgiven.

There are times when we still carry around this fleshly portion, but of course we fall. And when we fall, it can hinder our endeavor in faith. And this is the role of confession, and the gift that God has given us for confession is that when we have fallen...

And when we have burdens or doubts that are slowing our journey in faith, that we can use this gift of confession to strengthen our faith. And I think that's why God has given it to us. I will say that I felt...

I felt very, very good about the presentation that was given this morning, as well as many of the comments that have been stated today. I was a little, I feel like coming from outside of the Midwest area, I often get questions back from our congregation in Spokane.

I guess for some reason people would think that maybe since I have ties here or since I'm on the board that maybe I don't know what's going on. Then they ask for clarification on what's going on and I can't really give any answers in that respect. And I was a little, it did,

give me sorrow to hear some of the talk of maybe false spirits or heresies. Not knowing exactly what's going on, I can't necessarily say whether they're justified or not, but it definitely, that it brought me sorrow. And I would just encourage everyone to, if you,

feel that there's these certain brothers that have a misunderstanding or that are lost, that you'd approach them even in a, you know, maybe like a one-on-one type of scenario. I think that if we discuss in that type of manner with love that

it's a much different conversation sometimes than a large meeting. And if there is truly doctrinal differences that may not necessarily cure it, but I think that we should, it is good to not only talk about these, you know,

these individuals that may be lost, but I have talked to different individuals before, one-on-one,

And when I discuss with them, I feel like I believe the same way. And then I talk to someone else and I feel I believe the same way as them. But if you ask them, they would say they don't believe the same way as the other person. And I guess it's a little confusing, but...

I don't know, I'm kind of rambling now, but I hope that it's my prayer that if I have said anything here, that someone would approach me and let me know where I've come from. But that's my understanding of it, and can I hear that gospel? Okay, ready to warn again, and then Mark will work.

Did you forget my name? You called it out. Oh, yeah. You're in the way here.

It's good to be here. I also

I was thinking about coming to these board members' workshops and speaker workshops as we alternate year to year. And I was remembering 27 years ago it was a speaker's camp and I was not...

There the brothers were encouraging me as I was, after that weekend, going into surgery for stomach cancer. Now many of those brothers have reached the destination. And it is about to be here.

He gave me yet years to be with my wife and children.

Encouraging and heartwarming to see the new brothers coming into the work. Those of us who have been at it for a while have been uplifted and encouraged these young brothers and sisters as we have even heard today. We'd like to do that today.

or all of you, some who may be for the first time here, you certainly give us a boost. We are so joyous to see that God's kingdom is in good hands. But also, as we've discussed today, that this occasion is different than this, that

that have come in God's kingdom and I've sometimes paused to think on this that how have we come to this point that it's evident we have differences and my thoughts and prayers were for today even that so simply that

we could all be here at the feet of jesus we could all be taught as our brother roger mentioned that when we've had these discussions and visits and meetings over the years that certainly it's easy to dry up in these things and it's

forth and I'm as faulty as the next in these things that not always my conversation has not always been constructive I've been faulty and lacking

Believe that I want to be a child in this.

that together with the Holy Spirit. The greatest first fruit of the Holy Spirit is love. We could all carry one another. And I'm hopeful. I was happy to hear our Wolf Lake brothers speak

I want to hear them in their point of view.

And I don't have any problems with having brothers from Finland come to visit with us also. I believe also that the Holy Spirit is here. And it's not hard to see our faults if we begin to look at them one to another.

again make new promises to trust that the Holy Spirit is here that it can guide and teach and lead us repair and correct where we've gone astray

We don't want to be divided, but we want to come together. I've thought also on this important matter of justification by faith, and I've thought in these discussions, it's not a bad thing that we

out of yourself. It's the gift of God. And it's not a bad thing that we visited more on the matters of confession. But I also feel that maybe there's a broad implication that we're not understanding

and that we're not understanding confession in the correct way. And I know that we don't so often use the word justification by faith in our sermons. But in many other ways, I think that comes forth through the message of God.

that this is saving faith and that we believe and that in this way we get to heaven. And so I believe that even though it's so easy as an individual that we can lose sight of that important thing,

tenet or doctrine, chief doctrine of our faith, that we are saved by faith. And that it's so easy for the carnal portion to want to see some merit in ourselves, and again and again we need to be taught in that manner.

But I believe that it's been taught correctly in God's kingdom over the years of my memory. And also of confession, I think that as individuals, I'm sure many of us have had our struggles with it. And both with justification and confession and our endeavor of faith.

Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, how could we correctly understand them and use them and believe them as God intended them? So despite that we may individually struggle in these things, it's a different matter than to say that it's being taught incorrectly in God's kingdom.

Because I've always heard that teaching that confession is a grace privilege and it's to help us to unburden ourselves so that we could continue the endeavor of faith and that we wouldn't become weighed down by sins that trouble our heart and bother our conscience that

we can come boldly to the throne of grace in time of need as we've heard today. May God help us and may he preserve and keep each of us. We are members of this household of God and even when the enemy has come to us,

Tried to do His work of destruction and division. Let us fight against that and let us come closer together and allow the Spirit

Just warm greetings from Seattle. I know it's been a long day, and I'm kind of disappointed. I know I didn't want to hear your confusing message. I had the prayer of the Heavenly Father that he would speak through his spirit. My prayer this morning, today, through our brothers, is to answer in a clear voice and devotion and presentation, and it's nothing to uprun it.

I don't have great wisdom in these matters, but in the matter of putting away a sin, it's not a work or any kind of composure or anything that we take on ourselves, but what matters is the way that we heard the devotion, have freedom, and freely believe Him, forgive Him, and make Him want to teach us. To think in this way, this warning and that ambition to why is this

They would want to test them with water. How many students can I pile on my conscience? How long can they travel? One has to understand that's not in the heart of the Holy Spirit. I don't know, and I don't want to find out. Just that I can never as a child keep faking a deep conscience.

One day, make it to heaven, and the final thought will be the verse of King David from the fourth Psalm. One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after, that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, and to behold the beauty of the Lord and to acquire his help. When our sins are forgiven, we have peace with God.

First of all, I would say that my thoughts have changed a lot from when I first requested.

that beginning with the opening of the ocean this morning,

and the presentation and many of the speeches that I have heard, they have all answered to my spirit. I would say, and I would say before God and before man and before everyone here, that I firmly believe that the Holy Spirit has spoken today.

You have sometimes heard this quotation by Eno Banagyoki. He said, the last heresy was their faith.

the translation of his continued what he said is, but the next territory will be like a spiral web and so on. But actually, the Finnish language is so picturesque, so beautiful, that it came out in a very beautiful way in the Finnish language, and I'll say it in Finnish.

It's hard to translate that very thought into English, but I'll try.

because of the leniency, but the next heresy will be like a finally woven web that has been woven. I would say that some of the speeches that I have heard today certainly go along with this problem.

The words that are spoken we cannot disagree with. They have quoted scripture, but so did the devil quote scripture. It is from their truths that we can determine that there is

And I say there is a false spirit that is trying to work its way into God's kingdom.

I won't refer to all the items in the document, which I have made myself clear that I do not agree there are some true things that are true and are correct, but I cannot agree it is not of the right spirit. I will take just one example.

towards the LLC. Those are criticisms that we can read about in Holy Scripture when they criticize Moses that he takes too much time. And we've already heard what happened to them.

will be swallowed up. And if they do not repent, which they have been encouraged by so many here today, they will also be swallowed up by the earth, which is the heresy. When they criticize the LLC, they are criticizing God himself, as we have heard so clearly today.

Because these men that are serving there are serving at the will of the congregation who God has allowed them to appoint to that position. I hesitantly want to mention this, but I want to say

that, as I said earlier today, I was 41 years old when the last heresy broke. And for some reason, and I think it was for my own salvation's sake, that God, through his congregation, selected me to serve on the first ALC board until I retired in 1998. It was under about 25 years.

And I would have to say that all through my experience on the board, on the ALC board, and then when it changed the name to LLC board, there was not a one on the board that was pumped up and was campaigning to be re-elected from that position.

they were serving a part of obedience to the convocation. And I would say also, I was fortunate enough to receive invitations to attend their last two board meetings, the one in Phoenix and one they had here in Colorado last fall.

about the sincerity of their confession and their humbleness. Many I have heard and have been told personally that they compare the LLC to the Mission Board.

I would say that there's very few of you brothers and sisters here that were alive, were born at the time of the mission board. You don't know the history, the background of that. If you understood the background, you would not be comparing the LLC to the mission board.

That came out even in the document. Also, I heard mentioned that it is not the majority always that is right, and Detroit was used as an example. I've heard it from many, not from one, but many. I was in the Detroit congregation at the time of the heresy, and as I kind of implied this morning,

When I moved there in 1948, that heresy was already in progress. It took many, many years for it to come to fruition. So these are some of the things that you younger ones do not understand and comprehend because

I would say with much sadness that some of the speeches that I've heard this afternoon, especially this evening, have brought sorrow to my heart. I don't want to make the decision that LLC Portugal

be meeting shortly, as I think I saw in the Voice of Zion, with the brothers in Finland and Sweden. And they will be discussing these matters. But I would like to mention what happened at the time of the minister's heresy in the 1960s.

of paper here with me that I would like to just summarize because they aren't finished. But the ministers of that time that formed the heresy, eventually went into the heresy, which has long been dissolved since because we had no more followers other than the leaders left. They and the SRK met many, many, many times.

And finally, Hannes Lehmann, who was the spokesman for the Minister of Heresy, sent a letter to the SRK, wanting one more meeting. They would send seven of their speakers to that meeting, to meet with the SRK.

I need to refresh my memory, is that many times in our discussions at the SRK, we have discussed this stuff in depth at the SRK.

that we have so many meetings and discuss these matters from the very bottom that we do not see it necessary to have another meeting because such a meeting would only confuse the Zion even more.

these speakers to come individually onto repentance. So I mention that only to give my thoughts. I don't know, like Roger mentioned, these have been discussed for four months already.

These are not individual offenses that we need to take care of, but they are open matters. Is it necessary to continue? I'm not saying one way or the other, because it is my hope and prayer, as it has been so many speeches today,

that these matters would be resolved. And those are the prayers that we have heard from many, many this morning already. And I have many, many prayers said to me that they hope that these matters would be resolved and taken care of. But these last few speeches

It almost looks like it is hopeless. May God help us. Give us wisdom. Give us understanding as to where we need to go from here.

The cardinal agreed that we would have to leave after the next speech, which is radio. And so I won't be able to hear the remaining speeches here in the course of devotion. But I pray that God through his spirit would yet speak.

with many fears and doubts of my own that I need to hear this gospel.

I'll make this short. I usually don't have an appointment to talk about, but it's good to be here. The presentation was good, and most of the comments have been real uplifting and been very precious to me.

When we think of Lutheranism, we see a lot of, we could say, newer speakers, newer only for the fact that they've been installed into this office recently. And to you, younger speakers, I'll call you younger speakers, although maybe not age-wise, but feel free, feel free to speak. And what God opens up to you, give that out to the congregation.

Moses has been mentioned here several times and how he was elected of God.

to be the spokesman. And we always remember what Moses said, the Spirit revealed, and God revealed unto Moses, this is what I want you to tell the people. And this is what the congregation wants to hear. A congregation doesn't want to hear something new. They want to hear the same old, we can say, that same old gospel. When we think of the gospel,

The comments have been made at times that all we have to do is believe. I wish my faith was that strong that I could just believe. But when sin comes on my heart and conscience, I find it difficult to believe. I find it difficult to walk in faith. I need to put that away.

And so it is not a works, it is not works, but it is by faith that we are saved. And that faith is precious. That's why Jesus walked through the disciples' feet during that first communion and said, as I have done unto you, so do you unto one another. And so it is that gospel that we need along this way. We know the gospel. It is our strength.

on to the end of our journey. And then when I think of

Of reading the Bible, we know that it's important to read the scriptures. It's important to read the Bible. But when we read the Bible, it reminds me of one thing that our brother, many of you remember Peter Nordstrom. He said when he reads the Bible, he likes to read just a few verses or a few chapters and stop and pray to God and pray to Jesus.

to be made known so just reading just reading the scriptures alone even as we already have heard here that even satan

through the Bible real good, I'm sure it would have been described as a Pharisee who persecuted Jesus and nailed him to the cross. So, reading the Bible alone, without the Holy Spirit revealing it, opening that word, really, doesn't understand how much is going on. Unless a person with a humble heart, like, for instance, that Ethiopian was in Nigeria reading

But God sent Philip there to speak to him, to remind him, to tell him, open up to him what that scripture portion means. And then he understood. And we also, we need the revelation of the Holy Spirit to understand what the Bible, what God's word says unto us.

and so also not only young speakers but there are new board members here remember as a board member what is your first what is your first responsibility anybody can take care of lifestyle and painting buildings and so on but your first responsibility is the spiritual care of the congregation

You are set as watching of all. And we know that, we know that all people are told, all of God's children are told to watch. Jesus said, watch, and again I say empty, watch, watch, and first, and second, and third, watch. But it's interesting, it's actually the poor Jews who were put into that position.

They are watching us all the time. And it is your first responsibility. Second responsibility is taking care of our material or temporal matters of the congregation. So, but we pray to God that God will give you strength

That will give you understanding, will give you power to do that which God wants you to do, and why he has sent you in that position.

But we, like Don mentioned, our carpool is ready to leave after this speech, so I'm going to bid farewell and say God's peace to everybody that has been good to be here. But before I go, I want to ask, can I hear God's peace? Can I hear God's peace?

Like many have said, the time since raising your hand has been long and some of those thoughts have fled.

We've just heard two have also brought new thoughts. But I was thinking first of when Scott Simonson mentioned his concern of these decisions that have been made of asking brothers not to come serve in local congregations and so on.

It is appropriate and right that there would be concern over such a move. It is a serious matter and a serious step that has been taken. Considering our own congregations' experience in our discussions,

I can say two things with certainty. That in those discussions our own flesh has not been absent. It has been there in those discussions and there's been comments that have come from the flesh. But I also believe this

as certainly, that despite that, the Spirit has led that discussion and led us to such a move. And I'm left with this, or have been left thinking about this question, about why such a move had been made.

necessary or why do we take such steps? And it's not this that we would cut off a member of the body of Christ, but rather this, that we go there because they are still a member of the body of Christ.

that care would be extended, that we hold you as brothers and sisters in faith, and there is concern. And I think of this thought that Roger expressed that we would call

Brothers from Finland, and perhaps that's the way forward. I don't know. I've had many doubts in this time. What is the way forward? How do we continue to get to a place where there is no space between us as brothers and sisters in faith? But I know regardless of where those brothers come from, that you are always going to have faulty caretakers

there is no other kind in God's kingdom and it is for each of us to accept that care regardless of the faults of those caring for us another thing that was mentioned was how those speeches that had exhorted to repentance

At the MBMAG meeting, or the meeting of our Midwestern boards, some all offended that there is included in that that you are exhorting to repent from unbelief.

I've thought much about this matter of repentance, how we speak of someone coming from the world into God's kingdom as making repentance or receiving the grace of repentance.

But owning that grace of repentance belongs to every believer. I remember from that presentation we had a couple years ago on the sacraments, some memory work that our brother gave us, that if we walk in repentance, we live in baptism.

As God's children, we daily make repentance. And I think many times we need to make repentance of matters that aren't clear to us, that we don't understand. But yet, when God's kingdom exhorts, that we would listen to that voice.

Think of the example of one Old Testament happening that's found in 2 Chronicles. King Uzziah. How God blessed him. He sought the Lord and prospered. And it speaks later of him

that in his strength he was lifted up to destruction. And it speaks of his sin, how he went into the temple to offer incense upon the altar. And the priests stood in his way. It was not his place, and they rebuked him of that.

And it also speaks of how anger and bitterness and horrible visible leprosy rose up on his forehead. And he died apart from God's kingdom. We cannot remove

or bypass the priesthood of believers in our salvation. Salvation is only here in God's Kingdom. And it impresses upon us the importance of listening to that voice of the Spirit that has been speaking even here today.

And from Hari's presentation and also that Tom had mentioned how the sheep judge the voice of the preachers and teachers in God's kingdom. And it has even been expressed that

that these concerns need to be brought home more clearly. And that there is hopefully yet time to do that and to consider these matters further. But yet I have to say that I do feel that the sheep of

the sheepfold of the good shepherd have been troubled. And they have judged that voice that they have heard and have not heard that familiar and gentle voice. And that matter, even if it cannot be so clearly defined,

is enough that one wouldn't serve. That is enough there even to make repentance of. But I know for myself it has been so difficult to try to

decipher and consider these matters, and how Roger spoke that there was nothing wrong with that letter. I cannot join with that. I found very much troubling, very much that is not a familiar confession of faith.

But I know also in these things my own flesh has been close. And I have not always considered that which my brothers and sisters in faith have spoken with the best construction.

And for that and all my fears and doubts and sin, I would yet ask and I believe my sins forgiven. I'm not sure all my hand got raised, but...

Here I am, so I will try to share my thoughts. I'm Dan from the small congregation there in Flat Valley, Montana. And it has been a very uplifting meeting for myself and others from the comments that we have heard.

It was approximately five years ago, or over five years ago, that I moved our family out to that small block in Montana. It was only a short time ago that we went through the formation to have an official congregation there.

And as we were going through the formation, there wasn't anybody out there that had ever been involved in the work of the kingdom. There had been no previous board members or ministers or anything like that.

We wondered and prayed how it will go and hoped that we would do everything correctly. And oftentimes we would lean on the dear brothers there and other congregations and the LLC board

to help guide some of the structure and the things that we were doing. But myself, anyway, has often felt very weak and lacking in my knowledge and in my wisdom.

But coming here today has been so uplifting to hear that our understanding and our faith is the same as many of the comments that have been made here, the same as that wonderful presentation

a couple of thoughts that I had in regards to the letter. I am, like many of, or some of the other people that I've commented, I feel like we have been somewhat secluded from maybe some of the strife that has been going on. I haven't had to personally

have any of those difficult conversations. And I'm thankful for that, but when I received the letter, I'm not very good with names, and I didn't know who it came from or what it was, and I guess

Going into it. I just kind of assumed that it was something that was put together by by the people putting on this meeting or somehow affiliated with the LLC board so I took some time to Go through and read that letter knowing that I would be coming here today And

As I got to that portion in the letter that talks about the confession, I felt my fleshly portion wanting to agree with what was being said there. I couldn't help but thinking that it would be so easy now.

These things that are on my conscience, all I have to do is to believe. I don't have to go to a confessor, mother, or father and admit my fault. Because that is often very difficult for me to do. And when I finished the letter, I trembled because I...

was very uneasy with it, and I thought that, well, if I'm uneasy with it, then there must be something wrong with me. So I immediately phoned a dear brother, and it was very uplifted to hear that his thoughts were the exact same as my thoughts.

And I went on and called another brother to get that reassurance again. But I'll just have to say that there in that small congregation, we don't have any ministers. And we rely on that Spirit through our congregational discussions and Bible classes.

And the Spirit is the same. We don't often, often enough make it out of there to go visit other congregations, and I hope that someday that we can, but our beliefs there are the same as what I have heard here.

First of all, I'd like to ask if I could believe my own sins.

I'll try to not take too long. It's getting late. First of all, it was a very nice presentation. Thank you.

And even though, you dear brothers, there's a lot of you, I don't mean I know who you are, but you're still dear brothers to me. I know that.

And if we have the right understanding or the wrong understanding, I know that no one intentionally is in the wrong understanding, if that's where we are. But I guess when I asked this to you, I think in some way my question has kind of been answered, but I was kind of thinking, so where do we go from here?

But just one more thing, I realized in these matters, I cannot figure them out myself. I need to patiently wait for God to show me what is the right way.

Many of the thoughts that I've had today have already been spoken of. But as I was coming here this morning, I was really doubtful and not sure if I myself was believing correctly. But when I came here and heard the opening devotion and heard the presentation, my heart was uplifted.

and joyful, and I used to believe God's kingdom. And I was thinking of, I went through the last heresy also, many of the questions that came up of a speaker to prove that he's in a wrong doctrine, and I remember the speech was that mere Norway are fruit, and God is not God.

The very many board members here from many congregations, the LSE board also, and we know that the Holy Spirit is in there. It's in the American sign. I have confidence in these brothers that have been chosen to serve in God's kingdom. So we want to continue knowing that the Holy Spirit is here in our midst.

I agree with so much that we heard today. Presentation and onward. Also been concerned about some of the other speeches.

I agree with what my brother Ray brought out there, that let's try to remain hopeful and prayerful that God will help us and to continue to carry one another in love and as brothers and sisters in faith. With regard to Finland help, of course we are close to our financial

them and I can say that what they have said to us the brothers that we have visited with is that the Holy Spirit is there and if you and that doesn't say that at some point we couldn't have finished brothers involved but if you brothers and sisters put yourself in this position if the LLC

were called to go to Helsinki and try to clarify matters there. I don't think there would be too many volunteers from the LLC board or brothers who serve in the LLC to go and do that. There's much more to this question than meets the eye.

But that, of course, we have continued to talk to the Finnish brothers. We have talked about matters of doctrine in a general sense in the questions that we have had here. But they don't feel that they can say what's what here, who's right, who's wrong, without knowing so much about what's happening here and so forth.

I really trust that God's Spirit is here, and we can trust that if it's God's will that at some point we would have finished brothers come here to help us, so be it, and we can trust that God will lead and guide that. But in the meantime, let's continue to visit as brothers and sisters in faith and pray that God will open matters.

Then, with regard to the question of justification, I've lamented over this, that it's such an important topic, but the way this has been discussed.

In this poem, that you must understand justification almost in a demanding way, has not felt good to me, and I lamented that such an important topic has been dealt with in that way. One case in point in this, one sister in this,

sincerely believing sister started to tear up and said, well, I don't understand what the merits of Christ mean. And I said, do you understand that Christ died and atoned for our sins on Golgotha? And she said, well, yeah, of course. And I said, and he rose victorious.

From the grave, so that we can be righteous before God. Yes, I understand that. I said, you understand justification. With regard to the letter, I join with the others that have said that I don't ever believe in the same way as the letter in its entirety. There are several parts that are right.

confession nor about binding as just two examples with regard to the 70s and 80s we have we've spoken in several larger gatherings I think once at summer services in 2011 we spoke at

some area meetings of boards and speakers, the minister's teleconference. I believe we spoke about it at the minister's camp. And so it isn't that these things haven't been talked about, and they have been talked about in smaller circles. There's not a problem to talk about it. But I think the important thing is one part of my opinion

I've been concerned that it seems that a generation of people that had little personal connection to that, some did, but are speaking much about it. And it feels to me like in some way we're in the battles of the parents' generation. Parents that have won the victory, that have died believing the gospel. Faulty servants that have died believing

and I've been concerned that some of the the sense of some of the discussion hasn't felt like it's been done with a forgiving heart and mind but there's freedom to talk about these things but what heart and mind we talk about them is what is important

There would be much that we could talk about with regard to the letter and those things. It was a confusing time. There was much timidity. There were many difficulties. And contrary to what perhaps many think, I don't believe in a general sense that there were lots of people or brothers that were wanting to control things or be harsh or dry. But

Many were confused and had difficulties and many errors were made. But God helped us through those times. The gospel was preached and we had a beautiful time of peace and freedom and work in God's kingdom. And if God had not helped us, I don't think we could have had such times. So I think we want to carry those times with forgiving minds and hearts.

And I cannot agree that there's parallels to that time with our time. We heard in the presentation that, if I remember correctly, that the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the congregation. We do not trust in man.

But when God's Spirit is ruling, teaching in the congregation, there's no conflict between the Word of God and the congregation, the Word of God and the Spirit. There's unity in these things, and this separation of the Word and the Spirit and the congregation doesn't come about. It doesn't become a discussion if the matters are right in the congregation.

And so, the boards and speakers have been given a role, the spirit guides we heard in the presentation,

They are set by God to do the work. Sometimes in this time it seems like there's this kind of focus on the congregation, that the congregation must initiate a meeting, congregation must decide, almost as if the board has no role in facilitating the work of the congregation, the work. We have to trust that the Spirit of God also be

boards and speakers that God has appointed through this congregation. And of course, the Word of God is the highest authority in the congregation, the written Word of God, and there's no conflict with that when the Spirit is right in the congregation of God. So I've been disturbed by this thought of,

almost separating the congregation from the Word and separating the congregation from the Spirit. They're confusing discussions, and I don't think they're necessary. We've talked about the ministers in Wolf Lake and in other areas that there's been concern over. God's spirit of discernment

rightly. And God reveals through his children. Sometimes it's been said that, have you spoken individually with this minister? How do you know that something's wrong? The Spirit reveals. The congregation of God, the believers hear

brothers serving, hear their positions on various matters. There is, the light of the Spirit also is with the congregation, and the members

discern these things. And even sometimes when you can't put a finger on it, this is not unusual amongst God's children. You can't put a finger on it, but something doesn't feel right. I think if we all would think about our life and our endeavor and

visiting with other believers, there are things that come up that we just don't feel good about. We couldn't explain from Scripture why, but it doesn't answer the Spirit. And later, sometimes God reveals it more clearly. I would say this, that there has been discussion that there's been no reasons given, for example, for why

there's been concern about the brothers from Wolf Lake serving in other congregations. For the past three, four years, we've had discussions, as some have pointed out. The concerns around the sermon and outlook in 2015, which touched on the area of birth control, has been an ongoing

the brothers from Wolf Lake, not only the speakers, but also some of the board members with regard to these things. The minister's camp of 2016, we left there with very hopeful hearts. We preached the gospel one to another, and I think Darwin and Phil would agree with this, that we...

We were so happy Saturday night, preaching the gospel to each other and matters were cared for. But something happened when Darwin and Phil went back to their own congregation in Wolf Lake. Nothing more was said from Wolf Lake. Board to the LLC, for example.

Over the concerns that we had been discussing and that were finally clarified at the minister's camp, it seemed like somehow or another the joy from the minister's camp evaporated then when the brothers went back to the Wolf Lake congregation and shared.

it feels that the congregation didn't join in with that joy and forgiveness and unity that was reached there at the minister's camp. With regard to the sermons that have caused concern, not only with the Wolf Lake brothers, but with others, it seems that there's been a focus on Christ and the written

of the Holy Spirit, the congregation, and the endeavor. They're all important. Christ, salvation through Christ, the grace of Christ is most important. Justification by faith. We are saved by grace through faith. Those are the most important things.

we heard so preciously of the Holy Spirit and the work of the Holy Spirit. If that is missing, there is much missing.

With regard to the discussions that we've had with the Wolf Lake Board and speakers, I should say, there's not been unity with the other congregations in Minnesota, and I think we've heard that today, and the Wolf Lake brothers have acknowledged that. And it feels...

I'm not saying all, but it feels like some are wanting to teach Christianity, and it doesn't feel right. Also, mutual understandings in God's kingdom have been overlooked by some who serve. And the care of the mother, the congregation,

I have to say to your brother Roger, I don't know if you're here anymore, but you are concerned about people talking about wrong spirits. And I think it's very important, and I agree with you, that it's a very serious matter to talk about someone being in a wrong spirit. Because if you are in a wrong spirit, you're not in a safe condition of heart.

So I agree, it's very serious and we have to be very careful about that. But I can't say, God knows.

Wouldn't the question be that where am I? Please show me. What is wrong with me? What have I said? What have I taught? What have I done to cause this kind of feeling in my brothers or sisters or fellow workers in God's kingdom? That seems like that would be the heart.

The first look at where am I? With regard to the mission board and the LLC board today, the comparison of the mission board coming off Finland and ministers being disinvited or whatever term you use,

The mission board was not willing to speak to those who were believing correctly. They discontinued visits. They downplayed the need for meetings and discussions and avoided them. We, I can say from the LLC, this meeting being one example,

have been very hopeful that we could visit, that we could arrange visits. We have tried to arrange visits. I have to say, also with regard to the book, that it seems that we have avoided the opportunities to visit. Yes, we have visited, but it feels like there have been such exacting terms for visiting that it's felt bothersome.

So, one last thing about regarding the letter. From the time of the 70s and 80s, sure there was overshooting that took place, and I don't think that's a misplaced term. Ministers were relieved of duties, perhaps in some cases they wouldn't have needed to be, but God allowed that to happen.

But there were cases where it needed that. And I don't think any of us is so wise to be able to go back and say exactly what should have been done in this situation or that situation. Was this binding correct or was it not correct? When the gospel wasn't preached in this case,

Was it correct? Was it not correct? Errors were made in this regard, definitely. But I don't think any of us can go back and say that we can say exactly what was right and what was wrong.

We don't have to go any further than our own home congregation to know the tension that these have created and the broken love. May God melt our hearts, brothers and sisters, to love one another, forgive one another, speak in love and truth, and hope and pray. Continue to look forward to

With this hope that God will preserve our Zion here, so that no unfortunate heresies would be explained, and that people would lose their way. For what does it require of us? That we look first at our own endeavor of faith, our own faults, our own sins, and ask God for

to forgive me my many faults and sins. As one brother said at the 70s and 80s, he said to me, that when I think of the errors of the 70s and 80s, and I think of my own sins, those errors that those brothers made seem

dryness and dealing with matters. I ask for your prayers and I hope all that I can believe my sins for you. May God help us. Amen.

Maybe Keith was supposed to be the last turn. I don't know. I had my turn coming and then I left to be at the wedding in Rockford and came back again. I thought how this morning devotion and

for us believers to hear. And we've heard from the many speeches how God truly was there in the devotion and presentation and I think gave us peaceful and merciful hearts.

My thoughts were to that place where Hari was speaking of the diversities of gifts in God's Kingdom and then he had read there on the screen a portion from the 1 Corinthians 12th chapter of those different gifts that are throughout God's Kingdom by all of the partakers of God's Kingdom.

And then at the end it said, but all these worketh that one, the self, same spirit. And I've thought of this matter quite a bit in recent times it feels like, especially because in my own service

Approaching God's holy word that my understanding has been so small and so little and sometimes in the discussions I just felt that there is this kind of need to understand so that

is here, child.