Someone online has their microphone unmuted. Yeah, so this is a presentation that I did for youth evening at our winter services a few weeks back. Adults will delve right in. So the kingdom of God is in your midst, and the King James Version uses
we're within you and NIV is in your midst. But we can think of this in that sense that it's among us or among the people in this earth that there's a kingdom of God in locations. So the overview, we'll skip that. The Pharisees, or they're known as the separated ones, were influential division or a sect of the Jews
Judaism or Jewish. And they begin somewhere around 150 BC, before Jesus was born. And they're very strict or very good at looking at both the written and oral law. They emphasize
There's also feedback. Is that fine? I hear my boys back there.
Yeah, they were very good at written and oral law. They emphasized piety and the resurrection and very diligent at being good at following the Torah or the first five books of Moses. And so the Pharisees, they no longer exist, the group, or at least in what they used to be. And it's interesting because
His name is Gamaliel. And he told the group of Sanhedrin there that they're talking about the believers and the disciples following Jesus. And he had these words to say. He says, therefore, in the present case, I advise you, leave these men alone. Let them go. If their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men. You'll only find yourselves fighting against God.
that don't worry about them if they are of God that they'll continue and there's no way that the Sanhedrin would be able to stop the disciples if they're of God and so Jesus was this very specific text where this title comes from when Jesus was visiting with the Pharisees and they were on the border here between Samaria and Galilee
And they were heading towards Jerusalem at the time. And so he was visiting with them, and they asked, when will the kingdom of God come? And he says, the coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed or that can be seen with our eyes. And then he said that normal people say, here it is, or there it is. And so he gave in that sense that don't be following the man's kind, that you can see it with observable eyes. But he said it in this way, that because the kingdom of God
in your midst or it's already here and they those pharisees couldn't even see the believer so many expected to see that this kingdom was an earthbound uh kingdom and it had a king and even when jesus had fed those 5 000 uh listeners there and he made that miracle uh
Jesus already knew. He said, when Jesus therefore perceived that they had come and taken by force to make him a king, he departed again into a mountainside, a mountain himself alone. And so he knew the thoughts of these ones that they're like, this has to be the one, and we're going to take him. And so he knew that, and he left. And also in this discussion with Pontius Pilate, he said in this way, my kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews.
but now my kingdom is from another place. He says in this way that it's not structured here by rivers and mountain ranges and oceans and walls and so on, but it's a heavenly kingdom. So it is a good question that they ask, when will the kingdom of heaven come? And he says, Verily, truly, I say unto you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they're born again. And it
Some of those there were really confused. How can someone be born again? And it was a spiritual birth, wasn't it? So he mentioned this, that if one enters into God's kingdom, they have to be born again spiritually. The winds blow wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it's going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. And this little illustration there of that tree, you can see its branches are moving. You can hear the rustling and the leaves, but you can't see the wind.
And such of the same as we cannot see that one that is born of the Spirit or that one is a believer just by physical observation. So if it cannot be seen, does it have a border? Does God's kingdom have a border? The Christian congregation is simultaneously visible and hidden. It is visible or present form. It's assembly of a group of believers which nonetheless can only be by faith understood to be the holy congregation.
And so the temples of the old time, they were made out of these stones and they had individual sizes. They shaped them to be fitted with the ones next to it.
And in Peter it says, you also like living stones are built into a spiritual house. And so there's interior walls and there's exterior walls and corners and one's high and one that's carrying load on the bottom. But God has put each child of God and fitted each one of you into the shape he needs and placed where you need to be. And that joint between is that love that the Heavenly Father has given to us or the Holy Spirit.
And it's invisible. It often goes from heart to heart. And so we can't see it, but we know God's kingdom travels between the heart of children. I made this illustration a few years back. It's a show that goes from heart to heart. If it's not by appearance, nor by works, but it's of faith. Martin Luther said, do not look at the crowd or the wealth,
but where the gospel is found. And so he was very clear on that message that he was speaking to his fellow Germans that don't look for the largest building ornate and beautiful or where the largest crowds are. And it's even today that we sometimes we wonder that there are these large gatherings in this world that they gather around scripture, but the Holy Spirit can't be found there. It's only where the gospel is found, that true message.
Many will say unto me, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in thy name have we cast out devils? In thy name have done wonderful works. And then he'll profess to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, ye that work iniquity. And so we can see in this world present day that there are those that say in Jesus' name, they do great works in his name, but they are not of God's kingdom. And he'll say that, I never knew you.
And he says that you that work iniquity are those that are sinful, that walk in sin, have a sinful lifestyle. For by grace are you saved through faith, and not of yourselves. It is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should vote. So it's not that we have in ourselves something that we...
done or we can boast that i'm a child of god and those on the outside of god's kingdom are they're just unbelievers it's but rather we're we're pardoned sinners we can't boast so listen to the spirit not of men so jesus warned it's don't listen to those that says here it is or there it is it's so important not to listen to false teachers even when their message is so close and what would it mean when it's so close and it's often based on scripture and we can't argue with
scripture in and of itself, that it is God's word. So therein lies, it's the interpretation thereof. And God's word is opened by the Holy Spirit. And so you and I are not necessarily theologians, we haven't gone to school for theology, but, and luckily for us, we know that it's the Holy Spirit has guided us and has led us into this place.
And so it's not anything we can brag or say that, oh, I've read so much and now I'm a better believer. And Jesus said in this way, the sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. So we heed the Bible's examples. He said to his disciples, the days will come that you shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you shall not see it.
And they shall say unto you, See here, or see there? Go not after them, nor follow them. And so just in a time of Noah, not to look outside of God's kingdom for a spouse, or look outside of God's kingdom for salvation. For there we know that just as few that got into the ark were saved, and the rest of the world perished. And so God's kingdom is not necessarily a large, but it's a precious flock. He also warned Lot's wife.
Lot was leaving with his two daughters and his wife, and they were leaving, and he turned back. She remembered the things that she had in that city, and it told at her heart that, I'm leaving all that behind, and now she's conflicted. And she turned around, and she turned into a pillar of salt. So when a child of God, or one that comes from the world, repents, they wouldn't want to look back at that sinful world.
He said that there shall be next to each other, that those will be next to each other. One will be saved and one will not. And so it's important that we don't necessarily, we come from different walks of life. There are those that we travel at work with that are not believing. There's those that we have in our own families that are not, or even in our own homes that are not believing perhaps. And so it is one will be believing and one is not, and one will be taken to heaven and one will not.
And the devil said unto them, For it is written. And so even the devil had used God's word to try to sway Jesus. So there's many examples that in this world will use God's word, but the Holy Spirit is the one that opens. God shelters his kingdom from the cold and evil world. It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of a goodwill. The latter, those that do it out of goodwill, they do it out of love.
knowing that I'm put here for the defense of the gospel. The former, those that do it out of envy and rivalry, they preach Christ out of a selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they could stir up trouble for me while I'm in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this, I rejoice."
Yes. And I'll continue to rejoice. And so we can rejoice that some of our nation is also Christian with a lower case C, that they listen to God's word. They study it and they profess to be, you know, that they believe God, that they believe that there's a savior, Jesus Christ. And so it helps us protect us from those that are.
even further away that are of different faiths, those that would like to take down the freedoms to practice religion and so on. So we don't have to fight necessarily against them, but we don't join them. But we can rejoice that God has allowed them as a buffer for us against this world.
Therefore, in the present case, I advise you, leave these men alone. Let them go, for if their purpose or activity is of human origin, they will fail. But if it is from God, you'll not be able to stop these men, and you'll only find yourselves fighting against God. And so the same verse, we can see that we don't need to necessarily...
fight against those that are reading from Scripture and so on. But if their actions are not of God, they will fail. They're only of men. And the same saying from Jesus, even though they prophesize in his name and they do things, they cast out devils, they do wonderful works, there's no salvation with them. Beware of vain jingling.
And this jangling type of word is kind of an interesting word. It's kind of a loud noise. It has no, it's only for vanity or it's for just personal effect. It's for a long-lasting effect. There are teachers of different doctrines from which some have swerved, having turned again aside onto vain jangling, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor whether they affirm.
So it teaches of this that there are those that might be saying those words, but they don't have no basis. They don't know why they say it. They don't know to the end point of where it is and the true message. Their fruits will be different. So on this left-hand side, you see this beautiful apple. Maybe you guys have had the same experience where it looks like a beautiful apple, and you bite into it, and the inside is rotten. And so he also says in that way, beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing.
But inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistle? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. And so we can say that we know each other by the fruits of faith. Even though that we may not have seen each other for a long time, we can just know by when we visit that it was a child of God. Their actions, their words, and their demeanor, and even the words they say and remarks, it just comforts the spirit answers. It also says mark those that go against God's word.
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them that which cause divisions or offenses contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. For they that are of such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. And so it's important that there are those that
uh would like to have followers for themselves and not necessarily christ and so we warn against those as well be not unequally yoked with the world and so this yoke that we are probably all familiar with we don't use it uh on today's uh or at least here in phoenix i have seen
But instead of that way, be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? And so again, this example, if we keep ourselves more with someone that's not believing, they're going to sway us away. And you can see this little pathway here that the road should be straight. But for this one, it is off to a different direction.
I forgot what I put that one in there, so we'll keep going. We cannot change God's teaching. And after they had been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, how do these nations serve their gods? We'll do the same. And so this is when the believers had destroyed another nation, and they defeated them, but all of a sudden there were those that were like, cool.
history or their gods will be gone let's let's serve the way they did you must not worship the lord your god in their way because in worshiping their gods they do all kinds of detestable things the lord hates and a few verses later says see that you do all i command you do not add to it or take away from him and so we can't uh we can't
push a bridge across a river and into a mountain. It's going to be a dead end. We can't change God's word and we don't want to add to it, nor should we ever take away from it. When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, you are not far from the kingdom of God. From then on, no one dared ask him any more questions. And so there was this one that had asked him some questions and he'd answered pretty close.
And it says he was not far from God's kingdom. It doesn't mean he's in God's kingdom though. And so just being right outside the border of God's kingdom, even though it's closed, there's no salvation there. We find no permanent haven here on earth, but now they desire a better country that is in heavenly. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he hath prepared them a city. Later in Hebrews it says, for here we have no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
The last verse there. And so that's why it's important that we confess that we are a child of God. Those that ask.
And this word, confess, we were just in the LLC office last week, and they were translating confession. And in English, we have the same word for confession or confessing our sins and also confessing our faith. But in Finnish, they have two different words for that. So this one here is just openly admitting or living the way of the child of God.
calling to God's kingdom, repent for the kingdom is at hand. And so to ask the youth there, have you considered when you're out and about in the society that we live in, do you realize that you're a light to your own cities, city folk, even though they might look different, they might speak different, they might, even their behavior might be so far from God's kingdom, we're still a light.
In Mark 1 it says, the ones who were expecting the visible earthly framework for the kingdom were given a surprising news. It is already here in the very midst of you. Jesus had already earlier preached the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent ye and believe the gospel. And then Luke says, Jesus told the disciples that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem or beginning at home. So the child of God becomes aware of the value of
God's kingdom and he said on the woman now we believe not because of thy saying but we have heard him ourselves and know that this is indeed the same the Christ the Savior of the world and so the Samaritan woman there she had talked with Jesus and when she was visiting there she realized that he's a prophet he knew all what I had she's like I'm gonna tell my townsfolk and so she left and
She told them that the Savior, this prophet, is here, and they didn't believe her. They had to go come and see for themselves. And then that's what they said, that now we believe. Not because of your saying, we have heard them ourselves. But in that way, Jesus reminded them of this day that we can't see Jesus. He said, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed. Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.
Remain watchful, dear brother and sister. If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out. It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than having two eyes and be cast into hellfire. Holding faith and a good conscience
which some having put away concerning faith have been made shipwrecked. And that first one I mentioned that, you know, if there's those that the phone is a temptation, or if you travel down a road on the way to work and there's a place there that's very tempting, just take a different road. If that phone is such a distraction, maybe we can put it on the shelf when you get home, leave it in the car when you get to church, whatever it may be to help one another along this way.
that we would not be shipwrecked like that boat on the bottom. And there's a cute little story to that one on the right-hand side. There was a shepherd that was following a sheep, and this sheep had fallen asleep, and the rest of the herd had left. And the shepherd nudged that sheep, and it looked around as if the whole flock is gone, and it took off running. It didn't want to be left behind. You can see the cloud of dust in the distance.
So we do pray for patience, but we also want to treat all people equally. Follow peace with all men and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. And so we are enlightened in this world that how can someone see God's kingdom if we don't act as a child of God? The fruits are not there.
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. And so there's that admonishment that we would live peaceably with all people, that even though we can't preach the gospel, we still take care of matters with our neighbors and say sorry or restore them what we've damaged of their property and so on, whether it's a business or government or a neighborhood.
And he answered and said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it and dung it. And if it bear fruit well, and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. And so we might have that prayer to the Heavenly Father that give a little time more that this one could have the grace of repentance. But ultimately we know it's God's decision if one would repent or not. And so we are likened to the world.
In Hebrews it says, keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers. For by so doing, some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it. Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison. And those who are mistreated as if you were also yourselves were suffering.
Paul's instruction to the believers, devote yourself to prayer. Be watchful and thankful. And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains. Pray that I may proclaim it clearly, as I should. Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders. Make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
And in conclusion, there's three verses here. The Pharisees once asked Jesus, who can forgive sins but God alone? And so they might have a stumbling block to how does one forgive sins. And we know it is in God's kingdom. Jesus told Peter, I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. And whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
The same gospel of forgiveness of sins that opens a door to God's kingdom to a penitent sinner is the same forgiveness that helps one preserve living faith in the hearts of the citizens of God's kingdom. And Jesus said, If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. Jesus taught us to forgive each other. Open the floor for any comments or discussion.
If you have any comments online, you can raise your hand. I'm not too sure if I'll see it here, but you can see it at the back of the computer. Yeah, we'll take a microphone turn if you could say your name. Good.
Steve Ouellette with Phoenix. Thanks, one, for putting this together. It was a comforting message. It's good to hear these same reminders and had a lot of thoughts as you were presenting there. So I'll try to put them together as best I can. But so many times I find myself so thankful for the congregation of God that I know of my own volition. I always find myself lacking and falling and
through God's grace and the Holy Spirit and his fellow believers that help on the way. It is a comforting message that we don't, it's not of our own actions or behaviors or deeds that we're able to find God's kingdom, but just strictly through God's grace. And so then it helps me to just lean on God, as was even mentioned in the devotion this morning, that we just trust God.
He is the Alpha and Omega and beginning and end. And all things are in His desires and His will on earth. And so, so many times we can find ourselves perhaps questioning why this trial is on us at this time or any of those things. And even in that song we sing this one and that there's times of battle and God does then give times of peace. And then I just...
I've often had that comfort even there that when those disciples were there in the boat and there was very choppy seas and they were very worried, and then they saw Jesus, it wasn't until Jesus spoke that they knew it was Jesus. And it's that same message that Jesus always says that, my sheep know my voice. And so it's just comforting to know all those things and that we can put all our cares and worries
unto God and just trust that God knows what each one of us needs. And even how it says there in Jeremiah that before we were born, God knew us. And while we are yet in the womb, God sanctified us. And it is just that comforting message. But even this morning as I come here to be with you, dear brothers, I have looked forward to it, but I find myself feeling my own sinfulness and doubts. So to ask that, can I have my sins forgiven? You've all sins forgiven in Jesus' name and precious blood.
I often think about Moses when he was there directing the battle through God's instruction and how even Moses had his brothers Aaron and Hur on the side of him holding his arms up. And I've often felt that I've needed to hear brothers and sisters in God's congregation. It's good to be in your midst.
Any other thoughts, long thoughts or just even a small thought? So we had a, this is Jared Hutta. We had the opportunity to gather the board members and ministers and wives here, I think a week ago or so.
at one of the homes and we had a discussion there. Part of it was because we have three new board members in Prescott Valley. So the thought was to kind of, everybody would have the opportunity to get together and discuss and share the joy in serving. It was a really good discussion. One of the comments that came up there was,
I think Jim is the one who said it. He was talking about the importance of unity among the believers and even among those of us that serve. He was saying that we have these spiritual discussions first in the meeting so that when we can all agree and everyone says amen, that we...
all of the rest of these decisions that come later on in the agenda are so easy to make because we have a unity of faith. And so that brought to my mind, I was reading through the minutes and in section seven, it addresses this coastal California question that we've discussed multiple times at these Southwest area joint board meetings. And it was really good for me to see that Phil was able to join us online.
And I guess I had a couple questions, and I thought, as I was considering it, I think it belongs in the spiritual discussion rather than in discussing it later on in the agenda for that reason, that if we can dwell in unity and we have the same understanding of the Spirit, that all these other decisions are easy to be made. And so basically, one of the discussions we had recently in Prescott Valley was in January,
One of the brothers brought up this topic. We've been grateful to see that Helena Roval has continued to join us at services. But there was some questions concerning how she was believing. And so several brothers had the opportunity to speak with her. And sadly, she does not confess that.
that our faith is the only saving faith. And she made the comment to us that, or to the one brother, that she is with Phil and Debbie, Phil being Phil Siljander, who, like I said, I'm grateful that he joined us here today. So I guess one of the questions that I had was for Phil is, do you believe along with us, and do you believe that
this faith that the brothers here share is the one true saving faith. And I guess if not, if you find yourself outside of this kingdom or that you don't believe the same, then I would be the first to welcome you back or to offer that repentance to you that you can believe along with us. So I guess that's the question I had.
If Phil was able to answer that for us, I think it would help this gathering out. Those of us that have been asked to serve and consider all these different matters, I think it would be good to clear the air on that topic. Thank you, church. So are you asking how I believe? My faith has not changed. I believe the same way.
through faith in Jesus Christ that I have that hope of heaven. And that has not changed.
This is Shannon with Phoenix. I didn't know how this meeting would go completely. I was just gonna be open and honest. I was shocked that Phil joined us, but also very happy and thankful that you joined us, Phil.
But I also know that over the last many years, there's been correspondence going back. It's been more one way than the other where your brothers have reached out. And I know just recently,
I know I just visited with Keith Kesty here this morning after your name was on the call. And you said there has been some correspondence of late and the encouragement that you would attend this meeting. And I can say that I'm thankful that you're here. And I also...
Along with Jared. I'd like to know, I know you said how you believe. I know how Swen had brought up just recently the couple words because I've been running back and forth. Trying to keep this meeting going and in order. But the one thing that I did get out of it is.
That something sounds so close, but it's just a little bit off. This last heresy we had, that's that same thing. There was so close, but something was a little bit off. I know we have this on the agenda and I don't,
And even Keith and I had visited about, it's not an interrogation of Phil or anything of that nature, but we can trust that God's going to guide this discussion the way he sees fit. I was asked a few minutes ago, how are we going to deal with this? And words that I have that God will guide this. God knows how this meeting is going to go. And I feel it's already been opened. And for our meetings, when they go forward,
When people are of the same faith, of the same unity, these meetings are easy. And if I was to be open, and I will be, that, Bill, when your name came up, an uneasiness came to me. In my prayer, and I hope that I'm not the one that's out in left field,
but all of a sudden that same elephant that was in the room back when we had our last heresy times is back in our meeting. With that prayer that you can repent of where you're at and be a part of God's kingdom, the question of where the meetings that we've been reaching out over the years for Coastal California,
to join our meetings. Different ones not knowing about the meetings and keeping this coastal California as a congregation. This topic will be brought to the LLC annual meeting with the trust that God already knows how this is going to go. But the most important thing is in this, I feel it's not about coastal California
in this meeting right now, I feel that the most important thing is where is Phil? Is Phil part of God's kingdom or has he gone along the way of the heresy? I think this is the time to be open amongst the brothers here that I can truly say I care about you, Phil. I care about all those that have left God's kingdom.
many friends, many family members. But I know I'm chairing this meeting right now and I feel so empty, lost, wondering what's going to happen. But I do want to trust that God will guide this meeting. But for all my doubts and sins, I would like to hear my sins and doubts forgiven. And I would encourage you, Phil, to
speak how you believe and be open amongst the believers that are here. Just, I guess my last thing is where are you? That's all I have for this. Thank you. Yeah, I'm looking at the minutes from the last
Meeting and I guess I would be interested to know When I was communicated with by who and what the conversation was because I Don't recall very many And Sorry, I guess I was talking on mute
Yeah, so I'm looking at the minutes from the 2025 meeting in Section 7, and I guess I would be curious to know who reached out and when and what the conversation would be, because I don't recall very many reach-outs, and I'm reading specifically then the
a recommendation to remove Costa California due to years of non-communication and spiritual heresy. If I look at the beginning of that paragraph, it says that there's been communication with Andrew Corpy, who was on our board, and we visited with and communicated ongoing. And from a procedural standpoint, anything that arrives to my email, it gets forwarded to everybody, whether I
have read it or not, or I'll forward it before I've even read it. So there is certainly no filter. So if that helps clear some things up, but I'd be interested to hear, um, some conversation on this non-communication like who and when and what was discussed. Um, because my information is still in the LLC book. So I'm very
visible there. And then about the spiritual heresy. If somebody can speak to the non-communication and the spiritual heresy. I think some of this information is incorrect. I think that causes a lot of confusion. Thank you, Phil. Phil, this is Keith Castee. I think that the discussion
we should have right now would center around how does each of us believe and not all the details. I know on a personal level, I've sent you text messages and as a committee, we've sent a letter and we can go over all the dates. But the important thing is, is that there has been a plea from the Southwest congregations to get together with you, dear brother, and speak about matters of faith.
And specifically about the heresy. And I don't know that these procedural matters are so important at this point. But rather, do we see, each of us, do we see ourselves in alignment with those who have left in heresy? That there's more than one way to be saved? That why is there only one kingdom on earth?
these foundational questions that the devil puts in front of us. That's what we've been talking about over the last years, Phil, and we dearly missed having you with us. The Holy Spirit guides these conversations, and we need to be together to let the Holy Spirit do the work that God wants us. As we heard in the service this morning, God knows what each of us needs, and he will provide, and we need to have
We need to trust that he's delivering the message. We need to have ears to hear and a heart to accept. And that is so important. And that would be my encouragement to you, dear brother, is that do not get wrapped up in all these little details, but rather ask yourself, am I in alignment with those congregations who have left? Is what your mother-in-law confesses that she believes the same way with you? And when we visit with her,
we don't hear an answer of the Holy Spirit. Does that bother you or not? We need to speak directly to these matters of faith, dear brother. Yeah, I would say two things. One is, going back to the minutes from last year, you know, that one paragraph says two things a different way. One is that communication will no longer be there, and the other says it hasn't been there for years. So already, there's
There's confusion being presented and carried forward. As far as for others, I can't speak for anyone else, and I don't know that this is the venue because we don't have everyone here. I think what might be good is to have a separate conversation, meeting with the members, and then everything could be discussed. But I can't represent everybody. I'm only myself, and I know how I believe, and I did say that.
Um, but I, I think, um, another meeting perhaps, um, conversation would be, um, would be beneficial.
This is my recollection on some of the heresy time. I remember, maybe I was incorrect, but I thought I remember the Coastal California Congregation had sent in a letter of support for the lawsuit against LLC and that troubled me as
knowing that the board had come up with it, or I'm not too sure how many of the board, or how many there is on the board in coastal California. But the alignment there was not with the LLC, and it was more for those that were taking things into the temporal, lawful realm, versus where do we see each other from the heart? You feel...
you and i have been in a few congregations together here in phoenix and then there in detroit and i have great memories there of being with you and the conversations with your family but then when i saw that letter that supporting the llc or the lawsuit against llc i my heart sank i
And I don't know, that was a confusing time for me to hear that, to know that I can greet you as a dear brother if it's in such a way that I would love to be able to greet you as a dear brother. And that's my main worries for your soul salvation.
This one, I have to say, I have very good memories with you as well, like you mentioned, going back, you and your family. You know, we had a lot of times that we spent together, and I still have those good memories. To that point that you raised, our only hope and prayer was that conversations could continue with LLC.
in Minneapolis because there was a lot of answers to things that I don't even know what they are. I never got into it other than it's always like we're doing right now. It's good to have conversations. It's good to be open. It's good to talk. And there was a timeline where it would end. And our only hope and prayer was that conversations would continue so that there would not be divisions and things could be cared for.
I don't have any other comments. I was at that, maybe some of your brothers have been there as well, at that annual meeting in Minnesota when that spirit revealed that Minneapolis and Wolf Lake were not of the same union of faith as the rest of Zion. I felt that was a clear message to me to hear and observe that.
It was a comforting message in that way that the unity of spirit was there. But it was a great sorrow that so many had given up their faith. It was clear that their faith is already gone, that we couldn't join them in faith. Yeah, I made a call. It was on an Air Phoenix. Dear Bill, I heard your...
question of your faith by this way that you say that you believe like you have lived before that you have that hope of heaven. Hope of heaven is a thing that I would say that most people on this earth have. They hope that they can
to heaven it doesn't really confess your faith when i was a young boy i was living in this in this world and i lost my faith and one thing
which I didn't know, didn't realize then, but after I was able to have a grace of repentance, I realized one day that the mother congregation, the home congregation, the believers, I began to see them not so pretty, not so good, but I saw a lot of all their mistakes, all their
things that they did not do right in my own mind. I started thinking that, yeah, they say one thing, but they do another thing. And so forth. I did not realize then where I was. I was, I walk out of the
God. I did not want to go to services anymore. I did not want to be in fellowship with the believers anymore. That's against the kingdom. No, the word of God. God's word tells us to at the end approach us to gather more. Gather more believers within God's kingdom.
I have been trying to come at some point there to serve Southern California, but we were not able to reach anyone. I contacted Keith. He was not able to reach anyone. So I know on that part of it that there is some truth that we were not able to be in a communication. I know all the details, and I don't know that they really mattered that much.
the main thing that matters is that our matters when we hear that your mother-in-law does not believe like you when I have discussions with your mother-in-law and I think I don't feel that we have the same unity we don't believe the same way it troubles it troubles and
I hope that you could hear the God's call. He opens up the door for you. That you could hear that. That call that Jesus had, even those five of those seven churches, those servants of those churches. What I want to say is that if you don't repent,
spew out of my mouth because your doings and deeds it is God who is opening the doors and closing shutting the doors he says another servant that you are so small you cannot open the door but the door is open before you I believe that God has called you to his meeting for a reason
And if it's His will, God will open that door for you. If you see that door open, please come in. All of us will rejoice if you can be, come back, if you can come back to this kingdom. The angels in heaven will rejoice when one returns, one prodigal son returns to kingdom of heaven.
It is all of our hope and prayer. But it is not our doings. It's all God's work. It's the one that looks like Scott has his hand raised on mine. Go ahead, Scott. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, I guess this is Scott from the Black Hills.
My comment was before Mikko spoke, and it was kind of on the same thought. I don't know you, Phil, but when you said how you believe it, my heart didn't say amen, because many in this world believe that way, or proclaim to believe that way, that Christ is their Savior, and it's in the Bible. But
There was a question asked, is that do you believe that this is God's kingdom here, the one saving grace, the one kingdom? And I didn't get the feeling that you believe that because you didn't answer it. Maybe you do, and you can't speak to that. But it is a doubt that I had, especially during the time of the heresy, that
through visiting with friends that went in the heresy, and listening to that doubt from Satan, it almost took my faith that there was references in the Bible to what you have to do to be saved, and it was believe in Christ, that he's your savior. And I almost went that way, and many in the world
would believe the same. But for whatever reason, God saved me. Many of my siblings have gone in the heresy over that matter, that we can't be the only ones. But my encouragement to you, and God willing, is that there is one kingdom, and it's here. And to believe that, and put those doubts away when they come,
when Satan asks you or makes you think about these other ways of thinking, these other congregations in the world, the other face, that it's not true. There is one single kingdom on this earth, and it is small, and it's hard for humans to accept that, but you must believe that to be saved, just the way I believe.
And can you others forgive me for my doubts? He trying to comment. It's hard. Yeah. The Bible teaches there is, there is, there is one kingdom and God knows our hearts. God knows every one of our hearts.
And he connects us heart to heart, much like that pictorial that Swen had. Regardless of where we are in the world, God's kingdom isn't a brick and mortar. It's not a geographic. It's a believer, wherever they are, believing. And God connects them heart to heart. And I thought that was a good pictorial that Swen had put together. And that I believe.
Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Phil. Steve with Phoenix. As I sit here and listen to this discussion, my heart yearns to
find the words to speak. This heresy also struck close to me and through the grace of God, I was protected through that. I remember a time that I had a discussion and it was about some topic or another and I couldn't understand what the concerns were.
I felt perhaps maybe I was even in that same spot that maybe Phil finds himself now, I don't know. And all I wanted to hear was the gospel. I just wanted to be in the middle of God's kingdom. And I could not, of my own weak understanding, try to rationalize or put words to where
I wanted that conversation to go other than my heart just yearned to hear that gospel. And God, even in his infinite grace, was able to give that gospel to me through those dear brothers. And after hearing that gospel, those questions went away.
And as we're sitting here talking, I think about these few things that pop into my head, and this idea that was mentioned about time, that we need more time for discussion. I think about back in the Old Testament when God asked Noah to build the ark. And we don't understand how time was for those believers back then, but
Noah preached for hundreds of years in my recollection. And then it said that when God knew everyone was on the ark, that God shut the door. And I would imagine that those that were outside of that ark, as those waters started to rise,
that they would have been banging on the outside of the ark to be let in. And I can imagine the heart of Noah yearning for those that were outside God's kingdom. And that is much how I feel even in this discussion. My heart is yearning
Before you fail to humble your understanding, lean not onto our own understanding, but humble ourselves and hear the Spirit. It is not of our own volition or our own actions or our own understanding. If it was, I would be lost.
My simple understanding is this, that there's one God, one Son, and one Spirit, and they are unified. Yes, the kingdom of God goes from heart to heart, but that which unifies those hearts is the Spirit. It is a part of God. It is God, that Spirit. It is not of man.
And I just pray that if I'm wrong, that I can be corrected in these ways. I don't profess to be of any knowledge, but I just have been content that God would give words as he sees fit. And I look in the Bible of those believers that have gone before when they were asked to do the work of God.
And how even Moses said that I cannot speak, and God gave him his brother Aaron. I do not know the ways of God, but I have simply trusted that the words that need to be spoken will be spoken through the Spirit, driven by the Spirit, and we believe with the Spirit.
Additional thoughts?
And John, if you see another hand raised, let me know. I can't see him on my end. I'm trying to figure it out.
Mall Presque Valley. As Jared mentioned, we had recently gathered as speakers and board members and spoke of the joy of believing. One of the comments also there was the importance to voice when we're in agreement, but then also there are times when we have a
thought that perhaps is different than the discussion would be free in that too. I sat here and marveled on the instructions and those thoughts that I also had that the other brothers have freely spoken.
with weak words. I said, Amen. The Holy Spirit speaks in unity of faith. It speaks with love and care. It speaks with truth.
and I know for my own portion in the recent heresy there was many times questions came but yet God did answer in that way that there came a time where those who were battling became clear and they were in heresy separated from
God's children so that there wouldn't be confusion or there wouldn't be the wrong doctrine or teaching that didn't answer to this Holy Spirit I think the question here that's been brought up or the worry is concerns is in that area there and specifically it's been brought the question do you feel is it so that that
in that area they've also gone with that heresy and not trusted and believe that the holy spirit is leading and guiding and needs to be more time or more discussion where these things from god's kingdom seem to be spoken clearly from the holy spirit that there is
something different. There's been a resistance or a rebellious spirit to go against God's kingdom. And I think this is the worry or the concern that we wish to openly discuss. Be free. Is that kind of a
rebellious or spirit that would go against God's kingdom and that could be cared for and forgiven God's door is the door to God's kingdom is yet open even to all those who left God's kingdom and there's a prayer that they would return to God's kingdom those ones who've gone into heresy
For my own portion, I'm so full of doubts and for my own sinfulness, if I can hear that now.
Go ahead. That's me. Dave Edwards, Prescott Valley. Are you able to hear me okay? Yeah, perfect. Okay. Apologize. I had a little bit of technical difficulties this morning and chasing around my grandson too. Anyway, it's been good to listen to the
presentation and the discussion, and I appreciate also how this was brought up regarding Phil in coastal California. Phil, I know you as a brother from years ago. However, I haven't been in contact with you for a long time, and I do trust that, and I have trusted that the brothers that have
reached out or attempted to reach out through whatever the means emails phone conversation text messages and when they came back because i know those brothers they believe the same as i or at least my faith my spirit aligns with theirs and when they would tell me or they would report back of the sorrowing side of uh of whether it was a lack of communication uh connection or um
however it went, that they didn't feel that there was the same spirit, the same understanding, that I didn't feel I, being weak like the other brothers here have expressed, felt that I could all of a sudden have great understanding and knowledge to be able to come speak with you. And so I trust that. And that to me is how it's always answered to me is that's how the spirit is, is that when we
when we hear the speeches, when we read the, the, the, the letters, or if we read the text messages that almost immediately you can, it can answer to the spirit. And I join with the thoughts that the brothers have already expressed, even though your speeches, we're not looking for anything long. We're not looking for any long explanations of, and we don't want to, none of us want to go back and try to,
rehash out the matters of the heresy uh the heresy happened unfortunately uh there was a wrong understanding and a wrong spirit and that was revealed in god's time and in god's time he cleansed his kingdom of that wrong understanding and so to go back and try to revisit about those matters it just it brings so much sorrow to us um
to me personally, and I'm sure the brothers that are on this meeting today would echo the same feelings, that it's not something that we want to try to even discuss. And so the part that I think we all long to hear is those that have gone or those that even are in question. And you, dear brother, are one of those that are in question.
is that are we of the same spirit? Do we believe the same way? Sure, we could have additional meetings, but let's not push it off. Today, as the writer of the Hebrews says, today if you hear his voice, don't harden your heart. Today the doors to God's kingdom are open, and as our brother Steve even conveyed, when the destruction of the first world and the doors to the ark were closed, I'm sure there were those that
we're there on the outside trying to get in. And, and we don't, we don't know when the end of the days are. We don't know when the end of our own time is, but the most important matters, are we believing? And, and that's a question that I think it is good for every one of us to, to ask ourselves is, do I believe the same? And when, when we, we, we receive that peace of conscience through the forgiveness of sins, but also when we, when our spirit answers to the
to the sermons, to the lessons, to the speeches, the fellowship, the visits that we have with each other. And sadly, I haven't felt that today yet from you, Phil. And so would you heed to this all, to the doors to God's kingdom are open and at least show us or tell us of a confession of your faith that do you,
I guess to be very straightforward, do you feel that there was a heresy? And if not, um, why, uh, that's, that's what God's spirit has revealed. And, and, and if you do feel that, then how, how do you believe, do you, do you feel that there has been, uh, questions or perhaps even offenses that have arisen from this, um,
that, that matters need to be cared for. And that's, that's why this topic has come up and this conversation has come up. But yeah, these, it's interesting how this, even a topic like this, how it can get, you know, worries on, on my own behalf of where do I stand, um, doubts in my own mind of, is my understanding so clear? Um, and also how it, it can cause, um,
even, even my own heart to, to beat a little bit faster, just talking about this. And I haven't experienced this in, in some time since the time we were discussing this heresy. But I, I also feel my own orness and weakness. And I asked your brothers, can I believe my sins and doubts forgiven? I would, uh,
I would just say that, you know, in California, a very small group and a lot of movement with, you know, people that have come and gone and being a little bit, in some ways, out of circulation. Like, I don't really know, like, specifically what happened in Minneapolis. And, you know, this topic on the heresy, I don't know very intently, you know, what,
what all occurred and that's why that's why I would not just for me but I think for those in coastal California to have that conversation to know as opposed to just you know moving on because I don't think a lot of people really know and I think that would be healthy and good conversation to have and I think we all can speak from our our own heart but you know you know we haven't had
And I'll give you one example on the communication. So Andrew Corpy called me. He said, Keith Kess, he's been trying to call you. He said he can't get a hold of you. And I looked back through my phone log. I looked back through my email. I hadn't had anything from Keith in like over a year. And Andrew said to me, I don't know why he's trying to call me. But I told Andrew, I said, you know, anybody can talk to anybody. Our group is so small.
But I think there's a lot of deceit in some of these communications that happened or didn't happen. And so I think that's why it would be good just to get together to talk about this heresy. And everybody could speak as they will. I can't speak for everybody else. So I think that would be healthy. I can't speak for Helena. She can't speak for me. I can't speak for my wife or anybody else. So I think that would be good and I think that would be healthy.
this is Jared again so we have had the opportunity several brothers have had the opportunity to speak with Helena and Helena unfortunately is not a believer with us she has told us that she said that she's been told that she can be free to go to any church that she wants to as long as they are a Christian church so
She said that, from what I'm remembering, she said that her daughter told her that she can feel free to go to the Prescott Valley Church or to study in Lutheran Church if she wants. But Helena has told us openly that she does not believe our faith is the only saving faith. So I guess that's the question you still haven't answered, Phil. Are you actually a believer with us? Or do you, I mean, we all believe.
All of us that are gathered, both online and those of us here, all believe that there was a heresy and that those people have left us. They're no longer believing. This has been going on for many years. I can't believe that you would be in the dark as you're insinuating. We know that there was a heresy. The question is, are you with us on this side of the heresy, or did you go with the heresy?
Or even if you didn't go with the heresy, did you simply lose your faith? I do understand that question. I wasn't believing for seven years. I know what it's like when you read that portion of Scripture where it talks about the Apostle Paul and the scales being lifted from his eyes, how he was blinded. That's true. That's how it is when you're not believing. You're blinded. And those of us that are here can hear it when you speak that
You are suffering from this blindness of one that's on the outside of God's kingdom. So if you can humble your heart to believe that sin of unbelief forgiven and gather back with us as believers, you can believe that mother of all sin, unbelief forgiven in Jesus' name and blood. And if you can believe, then as Rosario says, don't harden your heart.
In this discussion, I feel my own sinfulness and weakness and ask you to forgive me. Blessings for you, in Jesus' name, amen. We know in the Bible we've been taught that we know them by their fruits.
amongst the brothers in this room and most online we know these brothers and we know them by their fruits and we see those fruits and when we have brothers and truly in faith in other states Texas or wherever and we communicate with them I think we all know them by their fruits and communications to
two-sided and those brothers and sisters that are believing, you know, when we communicate them long distance, they reach out and they want to believe and they come to certain services or different services or they join us at times, you know, Zoom meetings. And I mean, just to be plain here, we've discussed coastal California and
once or two or three times a year now for many, many years, five, six plus years. And most of the time, Phil hasn't joined us. And we know Phil hasn't. I believe Phil hasn't shown those fruits coming and joining us at these services. So this idea of this
bad communication from Keith or anybody else. I just don't think that's correct. Obviously, there's no perfect communication, but those brothers that are living in faith in other states, they reach out. They want to hear God's word. They want to be part of God's kingdom. They're not living in their own little bubble.
and not being part of God's kingdom. We see those fruits. And I've been hearing from ministers and other brothers here that have tried to coordinate with California over the years. And, you know, like some that were there that are believing, like Andrew Corpy reached out and he communicated and preacher brothers, minister brothers have gone there and
services with some brothers and sisters there. But I think this lack of fruit that we've seen tells us a lot. Thank you, Darren. Wyatt?
Greetings from Utah Valley. Thank you. Did you have more to say on that? I wanted to make sure you could hear me. I had some communication issues with my mic this morning. Okay. You can hear it now. Are we good?
slow to speak like many of the other brothers. But first off, I want to say that added by Phil, your last comment. You Phil, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with you over the heresy and needing to know the nitty gritty details
and you not being able to accept the heresy until you have those details is a concern of mine. And we see in the presentation when Jesus showed the wounds in his hands and wounds in his side to Thomas, and blessed are those who believe. What we know is believing says
Yes, this is the case that if we've been pretty removed from the heresy and we don't know the details and someone we trust and a brother that says, yes, this heresy happened and those individuals are no longer believing. All we can do is... If that's the case, then we can just say, amen, I believe you, brother, that you are believing. And if this is what you say is true,
and so be it. Phil, a couple of other brothers mentioned early on that saying and that I trust when I die I'll go to heaven. That's a common message in this world and the thought that came to my mind is referring back to what Steve said at the beginning that
Why have we lost you? My thoughts for this second thought, but when Jesus was there on the sea and the believer, those disciples didn't know who he was, but when he spoke, they. And Phil, when you said your opening comment, I heard your words. Message of God's kingdom in that speech.
And I pray that you would see your position and hear the message of God's kingdom and be called to this kingdom of heaven. And for my own sinfulness, brothers, can I hear my sins and doubts forgiven?
Steve Johnson
As someone already mentioned, this topic is difficult. It makes me feel like we're back in those many, many discussions, the spiritual discussions.
or lifelong friends left in the heresy. Someone even mentioned that they could feel their heart pounding. That's how I'm feeling right now just talking about this. So I didn't even want to raise my hand, but at our
At our last Phoenix board meeting, we had a beautiful spiritual topic. And one of the things that was, one of the lines in that spiritual discussion was that faith does not remain strong on its own, nor can we preserve it by our own effort.
God has not intended us to journey by faith alone, but together in the fellowship of believers and the hearing of his word. As has been mentioned with Coastal California, we've had concerns and I think we've talked about this many times over the last five years maybe. And I myself had not personally discussed
Faith matters with Phil and Debbie. But I have heard firsthand from those that have. And even my wife and I had a nice visit with Phil's daughter who's bleeding. And she sadly
informed us that her parents had gone into heresy so when we hear all of these things and as was mentioned already those fruits of faith those fruits of faith aren't seen and even talk even in our spiritual discussion today with being unequally yoked there are those that
Yeah, I would just say it. I think there's a lot of conversations that go outside of
save including me i can't speak for others but you know uh the last commentary i don't remember what your name was um you had mentioned that you haven't spoken to me personally and obviously i haven't spoke with you personally um but through others uh you you know that i'm in heresy but others haven't talked to us either so that's my concern is that there's been no conversation um but yet people are making conclusions and you know that's where the gossip line goes
down and that's never good. And that's never good. So that's all I'm doing is encouraging conversation. Um, because I can't speak like, you know, for anybody else as well. Um, but I think it's good to have conversations versus just, you know, hearing what somebody says that somebody else heard and it never actually started from a conversation with the source because those, those have never happened. And I, and I wish they, and I wish that they would.
Paul Savileff, Prescott Valley. I guess considering this last heresy, I had this thought of Korah's rebellion. I remember in the Old Testament how Korah rose up against Moses and Aaron and questioned them, and he was found there to be in heresy, and the earth swallowed him and his followers up. But after that happened,
That was maybe several hundred people at that time who were swallowed up and found in that state of heresy of spiritual death. But after that happened, you can remember how the whole, it says here that the whole Israelite community grumbled against Moses and Aaron, saying, you have killed the Lord's people. I think for, especially after this last heresy, we heard this same line,
And the same thought, the same line of thinking from many. And it's a dangerous position to be in. When we are believing in God's kingdom as children, we want to believe that the Holy Spirit is the one who is led and guided in this decision. And that happened in God's time. These people who came in question against Moses and Aaron,
It says that a plague was sent forth, and there were 14,700 people, additional people, died from that plague. From a spiritual perspective, it was this spiritual death that they died from, and there they questioned that will of the Heavenly Father. It's also interesting to note that when Korah found himself in that rebellion, the day he rose up against Moses and Aaron, he was told to come to that temple the very next morning
That was God's time. So we saw with this last heresy that there was several years of discussion. But even on the other side of this heresy, I think it's a dangerous spot to find yourself where we want to know all those details similar to these people that came up in question after that time that plague was sent forth. So it's been encouraging to
visit here today and hopefully this hopefully god is able to open this this message unto you even coming here today i have to say i find myself to be a weak and poor sinner can i believe all my sins forgiven
Frankly, Frederick's son from Presque Valley, as this end of this presentation reads that the same gospel forgiveness of sins that opens the door to God's kingdom to a penitent sinner is the same forgiveness that helps preserve the living faith in the hearts of citizens of God's kingdom. And then when we greet each other with God's peace, it can be simplified into one question is that is God's peace with you? So that's the questions we're asking.
We want to greet each other with God's peace. Can I hear my many sins until it's forgiven? I believe all sins are forgiven in Jesus' name, precious one. Thank you. It's been good to be here with you brothers this morning. My heart says amen to everything that you've all said and
My heart rejoices after every one of your speeches and I have this prayer every time that when Phil responds that my heart would rejoice. Unfortunately, it sinks once again and it's very carnal in response. I pray that his heart would be softened
Like Jared said, I feel like the scales are covering his eyes and he cannot even see what this outpouring of love from all you brothers here today is trying to extend to him.
We'll see the beauty of God's kingdom and return to His living block. After all my many sins and doubts, can I hear my sins forgiven? Sins forgiven by Jesus. Amen. I'm sitting here listening to the
discussion from the brothers. I'm here with the board and I haven't heard those discussions necessarily in the boardroom meeting through the heresy times. But as I sit here today, I feel that unity of spirit and that love, that outpouring from the brothers. I see that one message, but then I hear another and I can't quite put my finger on it, but
But I hear that, a different voice in this discussion, which is disturbing or unsettling, rather. But for all my many doubts and sins, I hear that gospel also.
Logan Neville from Phoenix. There's a question that has been made here a number of times and perhaps in different ways and it feels like it's a question that's been a little bit ignored or walked around and
This question is, where are you, Phil? Where do you seek for your Christian fellowship? Do you seek it from those who have left in heresy? Or do you seek it even from an occasion such as today where brothers have met to speak about the work of God's kingdom
It troubles me that you feel as a chairman would make a comment that you don't know at all what had happened or very, very little understanding of what had happened. That was part of your responsibility to be able to
to be able to travel down a common pathway guided by the Spirit. The heresy happened and again the question is now left. Where have you found your fellowship? Where is it more important for you to be? And that's
I think many here have found that the responses that you've given are, there's nothing, we could say there's nothing wrong with your responses. We've always known that it's good to discuss, it's good to believe in the Lord Jesus. These things are good things. But like,
I think it was even in the presentation that even the devil quoted scriptures to Jesus to try to get him to do things that were contrary to God's will. And I think that's where we are left here at this point, where we wonder that
to the good words that you speak, where do they come from? And what is their purpose? God brought peace into his congregations here in North America after the heresy. And we have seen and we have known that those who are outside of this kingdom,
perhaps still come to services at times that there has been this acknowledgement that we don't believe the same way and that's so that's the question and it's a question that a number asked in different ways and where are you how do you believe do you believe as we do or do you believe
There's only one way to believe and we know that we're all faulty on that way. It was inside of God's kingdom. We're not perfect people. But simply we want to be able to travel together. And have you desired to travel together with God's kingdom or have you gone elsewhere? That's the question that was placed to you and you have
At least I haven't heard that answer yet. So to answer your question, I have me personally, I have not gone, I have not gone elsewhere. Um, you know, being where we are, um, you know, we have a lot of family time, you know, we do the online services from different locations, even in Finland.
And, you know, we get strength through God's word. But, you know, my faith is in Jesus Christ and that through him I could reach, I could reach heaven.
This is Shannon Phoenix. I know when we, during that last heresy at the summer services, this song out of 155, this verse was read there and I feel it pertains to this exact spot of where we are again today.
I'll read this verse and a half. It says, While here the exultation and praise of mercy pours, my child, why are you standing outside the temple doors? There is honey here and manna. The Lord is kind and sweet. He calls with love alluring for truth and mercy meet. The joy the world is offering is fading vanities.
And God, our joys that blossom and thrive eternally. I can say if I was to feel the same spot as we were at that annual meeting, for myself, I know we don't judge. We don't take somebody out of faith. The only way somebody loses faith, there goes another way.
or finds another way, is to do unforgiving sin. I feel right now, I feel your speeches are the same as the last heresy. And you're standing outside the temple doors. We visited with a brother-in-law of mine and a sister that went in the last heresy.
I don't want to be impatient. When we visit about this, they just recently lost their faith. So we've been dealing with this for 10 years. I would have just as much listening if I went to my neighbor across the street and talked to them about living faith. When darkness sets in, those scales cover the eyes. The only way that this is going to be opened
The only way that those eyes can be opened is through God. There's no other way. This isn't a discussion about coastal California. Just like you said before, when this meeting first started, it's not about bricks and mortar. This discussion's gonna go along coastal California of what happens and what gets brought to the annual meeting again this summer, of what happens with coastal California.
Just like those same discussions that was opened up with Minneapolis. It was not about the Minneapolis church itself or the Minneapolis congregation. It was about the individuals. That's where this is too. We'll see where God goes with this discussion. But that congregation of coastal California is just a thing for here on earth.
It's not about living souls and whether it's part of God's congregation or not. But it's about where are the believers. And for myself, I can say that, Phil, you and I, we don't believe the same. It's not the same. It's the same discussions that I've heard for 10 plus years. The same discussions that go round and round and reason and whatever else. It's true darkness. And that's just where myself, I...
saying what my feelings are of where we are, and I don't want to be impatient in this matter, but I'm just saying from my heart of my feelings and the discussions that unfortunately we have another lost person. And my prayer would be that someday that God would open up in those eyes, whether it's today or whenever time, but hopefully and prayerfully that it would be before you pass this earth.
But I'm just speaking my own. I hope I'm not being bold, but I'm just speaking what my feelings are and being vulnerable in that way that I hope that I'm not self-righteous of any nature of that way, but just saying how my thoughts and what I'm feeling today.
Additional comments? Other thoughts? Complications? Do you need me to go back to any of the previous slides?
This is Jeremy Karen from Colorado. It's been good to be here and sit through the meeting and the spiritual discussion. I would say, Phil, I don't know you personally and haven't visited with you, but as I've sat here today, I've heard many, many loving calls for you to repent and return to God's kingdom through the spirit of this meeting and your responses. I don't feel that you've
On that, you've evaded the direct questions that have been asked. Like Shannon just said, through the Spirit, it reveals that I don't believe the same as you do. Just for my many sins and doubts and lackings, can I hear that gospel? In Jesus' name, amen. Thank you. May it go here again. Be an excellent.
so here we have in this conclusion we have that jesus told peter that i will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven but whatever you find in earth will be found in heaven and whatever you lose on earth will be lose in heaven we have been we have gathered here it's a kingdom of god and
And this question has been asked, dear Phil, that do you want to believe? And these words that I will read now in the book of Revelation, 3rd chapter, 15th verse, these are Jesus' words recorded by John. I know your deeds that you are neither gold nor hot. I wish
You were either one or the other. So because you are lukewarm, either hot or cold, I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, I am rich. I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing. But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind.
Then Jesus continues, Phil, listen, I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire so you can become rich and white clothes to wear so you can cover your shameful nakedness and sell to put on your eyes so you can see. Then he says,
Those who I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. Here I am. I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come and eat with that person.
the one who is victorious. I will give the right to sit with me on my throne just as I was victorious and sat down with my father on his throne. And yet, whosoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Dear Bill, this call is out. Do you want to believe?
I will say, like I said at the beginning, my faith hasn't changed. My strength comes through the gospel, and I do want to hear that gospel if I can believe. I promise to believe.
This was a source of some confusion recently as well because we were in communion and our one of our attendees there for communion wasn't believing and asked for the gospel and the gospel was preached. But afterwards the discussion was had with her about
faith and it was revealed that she was not believing even though she wanted to hear that gospel this discussion has gone similarly that the gospel is preached when one asks the question is is it believed and do we believe that the
sin that we have needs to be forgiven. So the confusion around this topic will continue to swirl as long as darkness is present and as long as Phil, you do not feel that you are in unbelief from what you've said. You don't believe. You've said your faith has not changed. Then you ask to hear the gospel, but
Those of us that are here are telling you that your faith has changed. It's no longer the faith that you shared with us from years ago as brothers have related. Your faith has changed. And the humility that's required is to repent from unbelief itself. If you don't believe that you're in unbelief and God doesn't choose to open your eyes, then there's
No amount of discussion that's going to change anything. The reason I bring this up is because this issue, this attendee at communion asking for the gospel caused quite a bit of confusion with a couple other members that were distraught over the fact that, wondering how could they, how could she possibly not be believing
Because she's asking for the gospel. But yet, faith wasn't present. And so, when I heard, I've sat here and listened to all these calls to return to God's kingdom. All these speeches that have lovingly let you know, Phil, that you are in unbelief.
Again, I remind you, the humility that's required is to actually repent from unbelief. If you don't feel that you're in that state, then we can't. There's nothing that we can do to help you at this point. Only God himself can help you. And I was sitting here considering, well, how do we move forward? Because we're
It almost feels like for the last little while we've been going around and around. And I thought, you know, Phil, your own daughter has told several believers, we hold her as a dear sister in faith. And she has told us, individuals personally, that her parents, you, Phil, have gone into heresy and are no longer believing. So you asked earlier,
You said that, well, we've heard all these things from other people, but you haven't personally had these discussions. Well, that's because you haven't been around. We're having these discussions with you right now. Virtually everybody that's here has issued these warnings and reminders and has offered a call. But as these other brothers have spoken,
I can tell you that for myself, you and I do not believe the same. I feel that you are in unbelief. And that's all we can do is tell you directly that that's the case. And coming from one that, knowing what that condition of unbelief is like, I've been reminded before, it's been easy for me to get impatient, you know, with the same feelings that Shannon expressed. But I've been reminded many times that
For seven years I wasn't believing and look how patient God was with you. And so it's such a reminder to me too that while some of this discussion can seem a little pointless because it's clear that we don't believe the same, that we also need to have that patience, that same patience that God would have with any one of us.
But yet, I would ask you again, how do you explain that your daughter, who is a believer, one of us, has said that you are not believing? How do you explain that? And then it's a simple thing to ask for the gospel, but it's not so simple a thing to ask for the sin of unbelief to be forgiven, to accept that sort of humility. So those are the direct questions that have not been answered.
And again, when considering this, I've experienced many feelings, but I need that gospel again for myself.
I stopped sharing my screen, but it's still there. It shows up on here.
feeling a little bit too formal wearing one of these things. We will continue our meeting forward. Wasn't exactly the way I thought this meeting would go, but isn't that how
God works. Works how he sees fit. Seemed like we had an agenda put together and we'd follow that agenda. And went completely the opposite way of what I had planned. That's the reason why we have to put all of our trust in God because his way is perfect.
This meeting hasn't been the easiest, I know, for all of us here. I know we have some heavy hearts, but I also think that knowing how things have been
It feels like the scab has been opened up again. Let's all trust that God will guide his congregation, and we know that he will do that, and we can trust in that, but that he will open the hearts
of those that have lost the way. So with that, we go backwards in our meeting a little bit to, you need to get the 2025 meeting minutes approved. So I know you probably haven't had time to read them real quick or those types, so you,
Brothers want to look through it, you online and you here. Read through those meeting minutes and if there's any corrections, additions, anything of that nature that we can get those corrected for the records. We'll take a few minutes to read through those and if anybody sees any corrections then we can do that.
And myself, when I'm up here, if anybody's ever done a discussion, you know everybody's names, but as soon as somebody raises their hand, you're like, hm. So if I forget your name, I forget my own kids' names half the time and go through the whole town of them before I finally get to the one I need, so. I'm sorry if I forget your name for the moment.
We did get coffee and donuts and muffins. I'm sure you guys have seen us. Some going back and forth. So that did show up quite a while ago, but I didn't want to interrupt. So they are in the back back there and we'll be getting lunch around noon or thereabouts.
Now there's four pages of them. So there's any, has anybody seen any corrections or we need a little more time? Or additions? And if not, we'll need to get a motion to approve them in a second.
Preston. Motion to approve. Preston Simonson with the motion approved. Do we have a second? John Grangeroth will second it. We'll move on to the LLC update. Daniel.