Full Machine Transcript of the 2026 LLC Annual Meeting

The tradition has been to have it at Silver Springs nearly every other year or so. So there's an opportunity for congregations to consider would they be able to host in 2031. And I'll note that traditionally it has been East Central and Northwest congregations hosting.

in the Southwest area in Arizona. I've been gracious enough to host owner services every year. That would include a congregation in the Southwest. Probably considering that either, such as a congregation is a new addition complete or something to think about. So I'll throw that out there as items to consider for evidence to bring back.

Any questions or comments on that or anything else on this summer service rotation? Also winter services, here are listed winter services.

on request from the host area congregations. LLC services in Phoenix will be held in February on the, it's actually the fourth weekend, and the weekend includes the fourth Saturday. And so that's, the dates are correct there.

for 2027 phoenix winter services february 25th through the 28th and llc summer services east central toronto july 1st through the 4th 2027. any questions on item 8

Seeing none, we'll move ahead to unfinished business. There's no unfinished business to handle at this time. The next item is

new business. One item I know as being a Menahga delegate, we had that ask of information request that our delegate already handled, so that won't be a new business item unless there was anything more, Steve, that we could make. And that's,

where new business is at, so the floor is open to the delegates to bring new business from the congregations. And in the back there. Thank you. I give you with God's peace. This is Briar Siljander from the Coastal California Congregation. And I come in love and in prayer.

The Coastal California congregation asked the LLC two weeks ago at the requested deadline before to include three items to the new business agenda. The LLC board acknowledged this but said no, they're not gonna include these items on the agenda because the board disagrees with you. Those don't need to be items on the agenda. This is the same board who we just saw in Arvin's presentation.

who says that the congregation decides matters and doesn't direct matters. This is directly opposite to that. I've asked to send these proposed items of new business to the delegates, and I presume you haven't gotten them. I'm happy to be corrected if any of you have actually received those items. Something that was more concerning to me in the response I received from the LLC board

They said, and I quote, it has come to the attention of the LLC that a delegate from a congregation within the Southwest Mission area intends to present a motion stating that the Coastal California Laestadian Lutheran Church is no longer acting in accordance with the Constitution, bylaws, and decisions of the LLC in requesting that delegates initiate the process set forth in Article II, Section 9 of the LLC bylaws regarding the possible expulsion

of Coastal California Laestadian Lutheran Congregation from the membership in the LLC. That's not true. The LLC leadership has been coordinating this effort for months before. They were communicating with the Southwest Area Board, and you know what? The Southwest Area Board actually submitted a draft letter to the LLC saying, hey, should we notify you like this, that we want to seek expulsion of CCLLC? And they discussed it with the LLC, and they all agreed, actually,

It would be better if we all showed up here today with no notice of their intent to raise that motion. So I presume we're going to hear that motion. This is something everybody should have heard a long time ago. It's been discussed apparently for months or maybe years, but there's been no opportunity for these congregations to discuss it with their delegates now before coming here. So you're going to be asked to vote on whether we should proceed with expulsion proceedings

without ever having been able to discuss it in your congregations? Why the need for this stealth? Why do they not want the congregations to have this opportunity to discuss? But I think just as concerning is what the board said. They said, it has come to our attention that Phoenix intends to, or the Southwest area intends to seek expulsion. It didn't just come to their attention. They've been involved, like I said.

What they chose to do instead was to just spring it here without giving anybody notice to discuss when they could have provided the notice, just like with the other topics we're talking about. It's in their own emails. They were discussing this motion and they didn't want us to hear it beforehand. That's very concerning to me. Luther describes this kind of thing. He says, for the Holy Spirit does not come with stealth. He descends in full view from heaven.

The serpents glide unnoticed. The doves fly. You can be sure that this secretiveness is characteristic of the devil." This is, I think, as we remember, the same path that was used in 2022 to ban the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations. There was no prior notice. There was no opportunity to respond. There was nothing in writing or orally that this was going to come up at the meeting. Was it right? Was it legal?

So the LLC board has said it was legal because Minneapolis filed a lawsuit and then they and the LLC agreed to dismiss it. That part's true, they agreed to dismiss it, but there's no explanation as to why that was dismissed. Was it dismissed because the LLC proceeded correctly according to the Constitution and according to the laws? No, the only reason it was pursued, or was not pursued, was doing so under that statute says you need 10% of member congregations

to proceed. Minneapolis was not 10%. What was the other reason? Well, in the statute, there's one year to bring this kind of concern. If the law is broken, the party who was harmed by that can bring this concern before the judge. They have one year to do that. They didn't want to do that. They asked the LLC board to pause the timeline so they didn't have to rush to try to have it corrected.

The LLC said, nope, we're not going to do it. They refused. So they forced the issue. If this sounds very different from the messaging that's been had, it is because of what? It is very different. So I think it is important when we talk about how these decisions are guided and what guides these decisions. The first thing is, well, what does this law say? We did not violate the law. The law says that a member may not be expelled or suspended

and a membership may not be terminated or suspended except pursuant to a procedure that is fair and reasonable and is carried out in good faith. The law continues that a procedure is fair and reasonable when it is fair and reasonable taking consideration of all circumstances, and if it provides not less than 15 days prior written notice of expulsion, suspension, or termination, and the reasons for it.

and provides an opportunity for the member to be heard orally or in writing not less than five days before the effective date of the expulsion, suspension, or termination. Was any of that done with Wolf Lake and Minneapolis? Was any prior written notice given of the expulsions or reasons for the expulsion given?

None of that was done. So to say you followed that law is just a lie. And we have to call that for what it is. You have to accept it. We all fall, but we must acknowledge when we fall. If you think it wasn't, I would love to hear. I asked, I received no response. So again, I think that's where it gets interesting. The board says,

We did not violate the law. They published something in the Voice of Zion saying they did not violate the law, that they did it consistent with the law. But what's interesting now is apparently Phoenix intends to vote to expel CCLLC, but they're a little more careful this time. There's a new procedure. Hey, this time they're going to provide the notice in writing, and they're going to allow an opportunity to respond. This is what they've now told me that they're going to do with the CCLLC.

If that sounds familiar, that's exactly what we just looked at. That's what the Minnesota law requires. So, if the prior expulsion complied with the law, why are we changing the procedure now? If we're changing the procedure, we should acknowledge maybe that wasn't according to the law. I think, importantly, we can admit when we are wrong, and we can move to correct it. But to

Just say that the law was followed when it wasn't. That is wrong, and that is sin. But I think this goes to also a bigger question, the underlying doctrinal issue. And I think it's a serious doctrinal error that each of us should consider and discuss. We heard Arvin talk earlier about the goal being to teach sound doctrine. If the expulsion of Wolf Lake and Minneapolis was not in accordance with the law,

But that decision, as many here and on the LLC board have said, was the decision of the Holy Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit directed the LLC and the delegates at that meeting to violate the law. A spirit certainly directed that, but I can tell you that's not the Holy Spirit. I wrote about this also, and I don't know who of you was able to read. Unfortunately, nobody responded to me.

But I wrote about the expulsion of these two congregations, and it went out to all the chairmen. I don't know if any chairmen shared it with all of you. I hope you've read it. If you haven't, I hope you read it. I'm happy to share it. All I did there was point to the holy word of God, and I pointed to the constitution of the Laestadian Lutheran Church, which is what holds the organization together, which is what we all agree on.

And that says that the highest authority is the Bible. And it says we believe consistent to the creed, the writings of Martin Luther, the Nicene Creed, and a couple of other items. Which, of course, that seems pretty relevant. We also call ourselves the Laestadian Lutheran Church. But I discussed three things there. The first...

that I perceived were errors and the cause of this. The first is that the kingdom of God is not the LLC and it's not a physical kingdom. God's kingdom is not an earthly physical organization. It's not bound to a legal entity or a physical building or an earthly organization.

Luther says, I believe there is one holy Christian church on earth, i.e., the community or number or assembly of all Christians in all the world, the one bride of Christ and his spiritual body of which he is the only head. This Christian church exists not only in the realm of the Roman church or pope, but in all the world, as the prophets foretold, that the gospel of Christ would spread throughout the world.

Thus, this Christian Church is physically dispersed among Pope, Turks, Persians, Tartars, but spiritually gathered in one gospel and faith, under one head, i.e. Jesus Christ. It is clear that the Holy Church is not bound to Rome. Rather, it extends to the end of the earth, assembled in one faith, a spiritual and not a physical assembly, for what is believed is neither physical nor visible. All of us see the external Roman Church,

That is why it cannot be the true church, which is believed and which is a community or assembly of the saints in faith. But no one can see who is holy or who believes. Not Rome or this or that place, but baptism, the sacrament, and the gospel are the signs by which the existence of the church in the world can be noticed externally. Wherever there is baptism and the gospel, no one should doubt the presence of saints, even if they were only children in the cradle.

This was directly contradicted. And in my letter, I put one specific quote by Jim Frantti when he said, it somehow seems to be a wrong understanding of some of these people, of the doctrine of the congregation. And we've heard speaking speeches that seem to separate the word of God from the congregation and place the word above the congregation in some way. But our understanding is that the word and congregation are inseparable.

We have to be careful because this is a subtle equivocation of Christ's congregation to the LLC. And the assertion of the Word of God is not above the congregation. In other words, the LLC is at the same level as God, this organization. We're not talking about Christ's church. That's a false, and I think it's a dangerous teaching. And this is exactly what the Catholics preach, that they preach

They are the Holy Spirit. They only maintain the Spirit. They only have the connection. And it says this physical church, this group that gathers, has the Holy Spirit, and that is the church that the Bible speaks of. That's not. As John writes, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And the Word was God. It's the Word of God and not the LLC.

That's the highest authority. That's what our Constitution says. I think the second issue was a suggestion that the LLC or the board or the gathering or the annual meeting of the LLC cannot air. And I think I pointed out there are a number of examples actually of this exact thing happening. King David

sinned. The man after God's own heart, Solomon, sinned. Apostle Paul was wrong. Yet, when we equivocate the LLC to God's kingdom, as if those are synonymous, as is done, I think, regularly, it's wrong. And I'll read again what Luther says on this exact topic. He says, it is a shame that the devil should deceive and mislead the church of Christ with such childish foolishness.

yet by it he advances his own enterprise with such earnestness among the saints of God. He has succeeded to such an extent that the papists dare to say, the church cannot err, as if Christ were lying when he says that the elect, who alone are the church, are to be led astray, Matthew 24, 24, or as if the church were not the church because it happened to sin or err, when indeed Christ is daily cleansing it of its sins and errors, like the branches of the vine, John 15, 2.

or as if the faithful and holy ones never sinned. O you hard-hearted, foolish, blind men! This mischievous devil had no other intent in this sham-fighting than the works of love which are commanded by God should be suppressed and scorned, and human commandments and laws be held in high honor, awe, and repute.

Even today, many are misled by their claims, and this is still Luther, by their claim that the church does not err. But you answer them thus, oh yes, the church does err and can err and be mistaken. You cannot collect the church into one spot or into one compact group. The Christian church is Catholic, dispersed over all the world, and often found in a place where one would least expect it.

Therefore, Christ alone is infallible, but the Christian church is fallible. That wrong understanding that the LLC is unerring is at the root of what all of this confusion and divide has been.

The third thing that I pointed out was that the decisions of a majority are often in error, and that the spirit underlying those decisions, if there is a spirit, is not the Holy Spirit. That's where the Bible cautions us, to believe not every spirit, but to try the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world. That's our only source of truth.

luther talks about this very clearly too he says oh unhappy christians that we are we seize upon the legends and examples of saints without recognition of the spirit we rely upon human doctrine and wandering spirits putting god's word last and scorning the advice of the holy spirit who says through paul in 1 thessalonians 5 21 test everything hold fast what is good

And Peter says in 1 Peter 4.11, Whosoever speaks, let him speak it as the word of God. Whoever has an office, let him render service by the strength which God supplies. He wishes nothing to be said among Christians except that which we hold with certainty to be the word of God. Nothing is to transpire or be done unless it is certain that God is the author and doer of it.

This is what Paul intends in Romans 12, 6. If anyone has the gift of prophecy, let him prophecy in accordance with the faith. And the words of all men are to be valued and judged according to faith. And in Romans 15, 18, he ventures to speak nothing except what Christ has wrought in him. Yet we poor creatures leave God's word and follow our own opinion. We order, we institute, we bid and forbid.

We do and omit whatever pleases us. Then we say, the church has done it and the church cannot err, for it is ruled by the Holy Spirit. So in the name of the church, we fill the whole world with mighty error and downright lies. Would to God that I had the time to cleanse the legends and examples, or that somebody else with a higher spirit would venture to do it. They are full, full of lies and deception. Luther talks about

and warns about doing this, running around and saying, this decision is inspired by the Holy Spirit. He says you have to be careful because it can be inspired by a spirit. Is it the Holy Spirit? He again says, Christ does not want to give you the right to run to and fro in search of the Spirit, to lose yourself in reverie and say, I have this by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Actually, it may be the devil who inspired you.

thus they alleged in the edict issued in the Diet of Augsburg the church is holy therefore it follows that its proclamations are holy and given by inspiration of the holy spirit christ does not recognize such inspiration he binds us solely to his word he does not want to see the holy spirit divorced from his word whenever you hear anyone boast that he has something by inspiration of the holy spirit and it has no basis in god's word

No matter what it may be, tell him that this is the work of the devil. Christ does not bind you to anything but his mouth and his word. He does not want to leave you wandering aimlessly about. He wants you to hear his word. He declares, The words which I speak are spiritual. Therefore, if you want to obtain the Holy Spirit, you must adhere to my words, for they are spirit and life.

God has so ordered it that the Holy Spirit ordinarily comes through the Word. Christ himself states this here. Therefore, whenever you are faced by anything, even though it appears so attractive and holy that you imagine it to be an angelic being, take it and hold it in the light of God's Word. Examine it to see whether it is founded on holy writ, whether or not God has commanded and ordered it. If it is a mere fancy,

a token of particular zeal or a pious thought, but lacks God's word, spit on it. Unless it happens that God chooses to enlighten you particularly, as he did Moses, beware, since God has confirmed the ministry of preaching. Be on your guard against any such devotion or fancies, as the devil may well suggest to you, even though they are sweet enough to induce you to weep large troves of tears.

This is exactly what we heard at that meeting in 2022. There was no mention of doctrine, of the Constitution, of what the Word of God specifically says about these things, about the congregation. But more importantly, it's a reminder to us that we all err, and that if you stick a number of us into a room, no matter the number, no matter how holy we feel or unholy,

We are all sinful men and we can err. And it is a danger to say, because we feel something, no matter how strongly we feel something, that that is the Holy Spirit. Just the same as that equivocation of saying, this LLC is the congregation that God talks about. No, there are people here who are in that congregation. There are many here who are and who aren't.

And we can't judge that. That's what the Bible teaches. We have to be careful because what we risk then is following blindly these spirits. That's a warning that Luther makes over and over and over. Luther continues. He says, here Christ makes the Holy Spirit a preacher. He's talking about John 16, 12. He does so to prevent one.

from gaping toward heaven in search of him, as the fluttering spirits and enthusiasts do, and from divorcing him from the oral word or the ministry. One should know and learn that he will be in and with the word, that it will guide us into all truth, in order that we may believe it, use it as a weapon, be preserved by it against all the lies and deception of the devil, and prevail in all trials and temptations.

For there is, after all, no other way and no other means of perceiving the Holy Spirit's consolation and power, as I have often demonstrated from holy writ and have often experienced myself. For I too am a half-baked theologian. This I say, lest I exalt myself over the great minds who have long ago ascended into the clouds, beyond all scripture, and have nestled under the wings of the Holy Spirit.

but experience has taught me all too often that whenever the devil catches me outside scripture and sees that my thoughts are rambling and that I too am fluttering toward heaven, he brings me to the point of not knowing where God is or where I am. The Holy Spirit wants this truth, which he is to impress into our hearts, to be so firmly fixed that reason and all one's own thoughts and feelings are relegated to the background. He wants us to adhere solely to the word,

to regard it as the only truth and through this word alone he governs the christian church to the end here christ defines the holy spirit's office and points out what and about what he is to teach he constantly keeps in mind the false spirits and preachers who boastfully claim to have the holy spirit as well as others do and allege that what they say has emanated from the holy spirit that is what the pope persuaded the entire world to believe

Thus the Holy Spirit establishes a wide difference among teachers and gives the right rule by which the spirits are to be tested. He wants to say that there are two kinds of teachers. There are some who speak on their own authority, that is, they evolve their message from their own reasoning or religious zeal and judgment.

The Holy Spirit is not to be that kind of a preacher, for he will not speak on his own authority, and his message will not be a human dream and thought like that of the preachers who speak on their own authority of things which they have neither seen nor experienced. And as St. Paul says in 1 Timothy 1.7, talk without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions.

No, his message will have substance. It will be the certain and absolute truth, for he will preach what he receives from the Father and from me. And you will be able to recognize him by the fact that he does not speak on his own authority, as the spirit of lies, the devil, and his mobs do, but will preach about what he will hear. Thus he will speak exclusively of me and will glorify me, so that the people will believe in me.

In this way, Christ sets bounds for the message of the Holy Spirit himself. He is not to preach anything new or anything else than Christ and his word. Thus, we have a sure guide and touchstone for judging the false spirits. We can declare that it surely does not indicate the presence of the Holy Spirit when a person proclaims his own thoughts and notions and begins to teach in Christendom something apart from or in addition to what Christ taught.

No, that betrays the presence of the loathsome spirit of lies, the devil, of whom Christ declares in John 8, 44, when he lies, he speaks according to his own nature. That is what he himself has fabricated. Briar, I believe all the delegates have received your letters that were sent and your resolutions.

of this meeting regarding this meeting. So if you would like to present your resolutions as motions and the delegates can handle each of those in order and you can handle those. And then if there's other new business from any of the other congregations that can be dealt with,

So these are our motions that the board is now saying that I can bring? Yes, you can certainly present your motions to the delegates. If you will, we'll let Briar continue. Got the mic there.

is that there will be time for discussion on each resolution. I'll pull them up now. So the first item is an affirmation

that the Annual Meeting affirmed that under Constitution Section 5 and Bylaws Article 2, Sections 1 and 9, no member congregation may be expelled unless the LLC first states the specific doctrine of the Constitution from which the congregation is alleged to depart, and shows that departure from the Holy Word of God, and that the Annual Meeting acknowledged that the 2022 removals of Minneapolis and Wolf Lake

was carried out without meeting the standard. This is the first item that I talked about, and it is that there was no notice given. There was no specific reference to the Constitution, which is what governs us. If all of that wants to be thrown to the wolves, you can do that, but you must follow it, and you must state why somebody is being expelled according to the Constitution and the specific requirements in there. It must be based on the Holy Word of God

That was not done, and so that's the first proposed motion, is that we recognize that that was not done. That's your first motion? That's correct. Is there a second to that motion? Is there a second to the motion from the delegate from Coastal California?

No second for that motion. There's no second for that. Do you want to continue with your next motion? Sure. That is very telling to me. The deception from many and then the fear from others who maybe see that the right way and are too timid. The second item

Requests that the annual meeting adopt as the settled practice of the LLC, consistent with its constitution and bylaws, that before any vote to expel a member congregation, the board of directors shall provide to the congregation and to all delegates a written statement identifying the specific doctrine of the constitution at issue.

setting forth the passages of the Holy Word of God said to be violated, and describing the efforts made to show the congregation its error and to restore it, and that the affected congregation be given a reasonable opportunity to respond in writing and in person before any vote is taken. This proposed motion would ensure that the LLC is committing to follow

the law of the state under which it is incorporated. It's exactly what the law requires, and it would be the members saying, we agree, we will follow the law. If we are to have a process, we will follow. If we are to expel, we will follow the process that is set forth in the law. Is there a second to the motion from the delegate from the Coastal California congregation?

Is there a second to the motion from the delegate of the Coastal California Congregation? Seeing or hearing none, there doesn't appear to be a second for your second motion. Okay, then we'll note and we should make sure that the minutes include these as well.

and the fact that not a single delegate wishes to second a motion that says, we agree, we will follow the law of the state in which we are incorporated. The third item is a resolution that says that because no doctrinal error was ever stated or shown from the holy word of God to justify their removal, the annual meeting rescinds

the 2022 expulsions of the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations and restore them to membership. Is there a second to this motion from the delegate of the Coastal California Congregation? Steve?

I'm putting the mic to Steve Kutka on the left side, center here.

I will refer back to the previous motion, if I could. If the motion is to strictly follow the law, that is set forth by the state bill, I will second that motion. Pardon? If the motion was to strictly follow the law, then I would second that motion. The previous motion that we presented.

Okay, so let's finish up on the final one and we can go back. We were waiting for a second on the motion. I think with a second we would proceed with discussion on the motion. We'll go back to that one that has a second.

Seeing so, second on the third motion from the delegate of the Coastal California Congregation. It appears there's not a second for the third to revisit. Will the delegate from the Coastal Congregation please read the second motion? Sure.

that the annual meeting adopt as the settled practice of the LLC consistent with its constitution and bylaws

that before any vote to expel a member congregation, the board of directors shall provide to that congregation and to all delegates a written statement identifying the specific doctrine of the Constitution at issue, setting forth the passages of the holy word of God said to be violated, and describing the efforts made to show the congregation its error and to restore it, and that the affected congregation be given a reasonable opportunity to respond in writing and in person before any vote is taken.

Is there a second to the motion just read by the delegate from the Coastal California congregation? Is there a second?

It doesn't appear that there's a second for that motion. I guess I would first ask you delegates, are you here or not here?

I want to hear about fear. The word of God has been debated by humanity since the beginning of its even moral condition.

And what we're left with is do we accept or what interpretation do we believe? And you delegates are free to have those discussions.

But it's not a new phenomenon whereby there has emerged disagreement in interpretation and understanding. And if agreement was found,

on interpretation and understanding of God's Word. Then we travel together in unity of faith and understanding. But when there isn't, there's division, and we go our way. The...

The matters that you have heard and heard expressed come from interpretation. You heard them and you failed to second the motions that were brought forward because they didn't answer.

It's a really interesting thing how those who have found a different way are so offended by such a statement that it doesn't answer. They want to yet see a proof that isn't there.

But yet, as God's children, we remember all those who have become troubled in these matters that the way to God's kingdom and the return to prodigal ones is through individual repentance.

But yet we also live in a land where there's freedom for individuals to go and form and create their own places of assembly and follow after whatever interpretation of God's holy word they have found.

But dear delegates, it's okay to respond to even these kind of things in the spirit.

So I'm glad that Briar was able to come here and share his personal testimony. And it's apparent from what he shared that my spirit does not agree with his spirit. And this is something that the Southwest congregations and also Phoenix

that battled for some time here. And we did want to bring that here to discuss whether or not Coastal California should remain as part of an LLC member congregation. Another hand there.

This is Jared Huhta from the Prescott Valley. So I'm on the board of the Prescott Valley. I've been part of these conversations of the Southwest area for roughly five years.

And at our last Southwest board meeting, we were trying to figure out how to deal with this particular issue strictly on the temporal side. From a business perspective, how do we deal with an organization that has testified to no longer be traveling with us?

And so it's been an ongoing thing. Keith Kesti has a lot of the communications back and forth and the lack thereof documented. And for any of the congregations here that are interested in knowing some of the history, there's a number of believers here that are familiar with what has happened.

concerning Coastal California. And the intent was never to bring forward a motion today to intentionally expel the congregation. The point was to make all of the congregations of believers aware of the situation.

According to the testimony of Phil Siljander, who is the chairman of the congregation, the Coastal California congregation, we had a long discussion with him. He was invited to attend our last Southwest Area Board meeting, and he did attend remotely. And his testimony was not that of a believer.

And it was a very telling discussion for all of us that were there. He was given some very loving rebuke, but we did not leave or depart from that meeting in unity with him.

He showed us clearly that he was not a believer. And I believe Briar has done us the same favor today. I would do him the favor, if he's still here, to let him know that he is not a believer. He is not traveling with us. I think his testimony, what he read, doesn't answer to any of our spirits, those of us that are believing.

greeted with god's peace in the beginning of his statement but he clearly doesn't bring the peace of god to any of us here and so i'd offer him and rebuke that and sometimes when we fall into self-righteousness and many of these other sins we don't even realize that we're falling into them ourselves so i guess i could offer him the same thing that i did his dad

You're back in March to let you know, Briar, that you are not a believer, that if you want to repent from unbelief, the opportunity is there to believe even that sin forgiven, that sin of unbelief. So there's a lot of detail that has gone into this.

issue with coastal California, mostly non-participation. And not only that, they have aligned themselves with those in heresy with Lake and Minneapolis. And so it doesn't seem from a business or temporal perspective necessary to maintain an organizational relationship with a congregation that no longer travels with us.

So the awareness is being made here today. And then the steps that need to be carried out are whatever's necessary. And I guess I make a motion now to leave this issue, hear from the delegates, make a motion to leave the LLC board and staff

full responsibility to respond and deal with this issue how they see fit. And then move forward, letting those congregations know how they want us to deal with it.

i guess that's my motion and i guess i've been a part of these conversations for a long time it seems um even back to i i recall the 2022 annual meeting i was here for that and in all of these areas i feel my own weakness and sinfulness and ask if your brothers and sisters can forgive me

Is there a second to the motion of the delegate of the Prescott Valley congregation? Was that a second, Brian? Yeah. Would you say the name of the congregation, please? Yeah. Name and congregation of the... I second it. Brian Huotari, Phoenix, Arizona.

And is there any further discussion? Richard? Is that? No. Wyatt. Wyatt Kesti, Utah. I want to first say that I echo Jerry's comments. I've never been on the board of Utah. However, Utah installed me as a speaker several years ago. And in that role, I have been partaking in these.

discussions with Coastal California, and that during our spring board meeting, fortunately, the call for repentance was extended to Phil, but he did not adhere to that message. He did not accept that call back into God's kingdom, and our fear in Utah

We discussed it fairly in depth. Is that if a chairman of a board of a congregation is in heresy and is not a believer? What happens to those who are outside of God's kingdom and they're seeking? They're living in Southern California and they come across the LLC website. Realize there's this congregation called the Coastal California Congregation of the Laestadian Lutheran Church. Reach out to that congregation.

but do not meet god's word is that one going to be lost is that one going to be deceived by the enemy and that's a genuine fear of ours that we would lose those who are seeking by mishandling the representation of california and Briar, you are incredibly incorrect with assuming that we wanted to come here with a direct and clear motion to

remove coastal California from a sister congregation. That is not what we intended as a Southwest area. We localized these discussions in our area initially, and when it became a broader, more big picture issue, we wanted to raise it at today's annual meeting as a genuine concern for the rest of Zion to be aware.

For the rest of the LLC to be aware that this is a concern of ours in the southwest area. The second thought I had was that speech briar that you made started off with God's peace and it's a familiar message to all of us. I did not feel the peace of God in your speech. I felt like that was a speech conducted by the

reasoning and ideas of man without allowing the Holy Spirit to guide your speech. And I want to echo Jared in saying, if you want this matter or these matters forgiven, that message of grace is open to you if you want to hear it. But I too, feeling my own timidness and weakness, my own

I'm just a young guy from Utah, and I feel like I bring nothing to the table when I ask, and I hear that, and I'll say it. There are further discussion on the motion from the delegate from the Fresno congregation. All right.

I will endeavor to do my best to keep track of these comments and ensure that I can respond to each of them. I think Arvin talked about the interpretation of doctrine and people can have different interpretations of doctrine and I think that's true. I think the important question is do we disagree with what I just read from the Bible or what I just read

from Luther, because disagreement in interpretation is fine. We just have to be honest about it, about what we believe, about what these tenets of this organization are. Are we being honest about it? If we don't agree with what I just read from Luther, then maybe that's something that should be discussed. And maybe we should amend the Constitution to reflect that, that no, we actually do not follow these teachings of Luther. We don't believe those words of Luther that I just read.

We believe something else, but it is incumbent upon all of us to speak truthfully, to gird ourselves, to gird our loins with the truth, as it says in the Bible. Do we believe those words, or do we not? I'm not offended by a statement of, it doesn't answer.

I just want you to be honest about how you believe. And I want there to be recognition when there's a clear shift in position, there's a clear change in what is said, or when there's just an outright lie. We have to acknowledge that because that's sin. If you truly believe that this LLC or a board or an annual meeting of the LLC

can never err in any decision it makes, then you have to change the Constitution because that's not what it says. That's not what the Word of God says. That's not what Luther says. That's not what any of those confessions that the Constitution cites say. It's actually exactly what the enthusiasts at Luther's time said. The Spirit answers. My spirit didn't answer. There isn't reference to the Word of God. There is not. If you disagree, again, that's fine. You just have to be honest about that.

We have to be honest with ourselves. We have to be honest with who we speak to. The comment I didn't catch today was speaking from Prescott. He referenced some documents. I would like to see them. I would like to see. Actually, I did get to look at a couple of minutes from the area-wide board meeting before today. And I will say that there are errors in those.

I think if you actually go back and listen to that meeting, there was a comment about, well, it doesn't really matter when was what. No, no, it does matter. When accusations like that are made, the truth matters. God puts the truth above all. His word puts the truth above all. It can be uncomfortable. It can feel like we're at odds with each other, but we have to discuss that. And we have to be willing to say what the truth is and correct ourselves when we're wrong. If the word of God offends us,

then I would say examine your own heart and see why it does. I think I also heard that I'm not a believer. And I guess I would like to understand a believer in what exactly? I have professed that I believe according to the constitution of this organization. And it's easy to fling around and say, well, my spirit didn't answer. Or maybe my tone was too hard. Or maybe too insistent.

This insistence is from love, because I tremble what a just God does when an entire organization refuses to look at the lies that have occurred. When they refuse to consider a motion that says, yes, we will follow the law. We are under God, but God says to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. You're seeing the shift in what is happening right now. In 2022,

They booted the congregations out. No notice, no written notice, no opportunity to respond in writing. And they said, that's that. They've shifted their position. Now they're going to do all of that. Now they probably will be careful to follow that procedure. But they refused to tell you that it was wrong. So why can't we sitting here today say, maybe we did make a mistake?

It's not a big win for me. I care for your salvation, for your souls, for my own too. And I don't want to see you continue to fall into this fanatical enthusiasm of the Spirit said this, it must be right. Now I'm stuck because the Spirit said it and the Spirit can never err.

We've made a serious doctrinal error, and if that's the way that the LLC wants to go, then I think you must seriously look at your Constitution and what do you believe in, because I am a believer in what that Constitution, Section 5 and Section 6 says, and what the underlying documents that it relies on says. I think...

regarding the comment from Utah. Again, there's this question, you must repent. I listened to that meeting, and there's an open question here, repent of what? It seems the standard from that meeting, and I encourage you all to listen to it, the standard of that meeting was, do you agree that the heresy was correct? Do you agree that

The vote of the delegates at that meeting was correct in the Holy Spirit. And if you don't, you are an unbeliever. So if the question is, do you believe in that? That's one thing. But it's to say that your salvation hinges on the question of whether you believe in what that heresy was that maybe you don't know a whole lot about. I can say from local discussions there, the believers that were in California, they didn't know what was happening with a lot of it. They saw this thing being rushed through, and they had concerns about it.

So I would caution all of us, and I don't expect you today, but I think when we're each in our quiet places, and when we send our prayers to our Heavenly Father and to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that we pray that God would show us where we are. God would show us whether those things were right or wrong, and that we would correct them.

One more thing that I forgot to mention. There was a statement that there was no intention to bring a motion to expel here.

I read from the LLC's letter to me, and I don't know how else to take that. It has come to the attention of the LLC that a delegate from a congregation within the Southwest Mission area intends to present a motion stating that the Coastal California Laestadian Lutheran Church is no longer acting in accordance with the Constitution, bylaws, and decisions of the LLC, and requesting that the delegates initiate the process set forth in Article II, Section 9 of the LLC bylaws

regarding the possible expulsion of Coastal California Laestadian Lutheran Church from the membership in the LLC. So that's exactly what was going to be brought up. We're changing it here, that's fine. But I also would like to hear exactly what the motion is that we're supposed to be discussing. Yeah, I would like to hear what the words of that motion are so I can understand what it actually is. Did the motion get captured and

I have written that Jared from Prescott, his motion was to leave the issue here and allow the board and LLC to handle as they see fit. And Ryan Huotari from Phoenix seconded it already. Is that your motion, Jared? You get that, Briar?

We've heard quite a bit here about procedures and so on.

legalistic sort of stances, but of course, nothing happened overnight. There was an annual meeting here in 22 where those decisions were made. However, prior to that, there were lots of meetings in Minneapolis, in Wolf Lake, many other congregations, and the division

of understanding and spirit was quite apparent. And in fact, from the Minneapolis congregation, a large number of the members finally felt their position was untenable there and had to leave that congregation, including seven members of the local board.

And similarly in Wolf Lake, I know there was a meeting, even if I recall correctly, that was actually moderated by Briar Siljander. I don't know Briar. I don't know where he lives. I don't know if he represents

I know he's a lawyer, I've heard. Is he representing Minneapolis? Is he representing Wolf Lake? Is he even representing Coastal California? I don't know his membership status anywhere. I believe he used to live in Detroit. I don't know if he does anymore. I don't know if he's had any interaction or attendance at the services of the Detroit Believers, the small congregation that's left there.

but I find that his

lengthy dissertation here is actually more of a harassment, if you will, than seeking actual remedy. Because we all know when we're that divided, it is a matter of conscience, it's a matter of offense, it's a matter of differences, a matter of different spirits. And as Arvin said,

Those things are corrected by the individual repentance. I was a delegate at the meeting in 2022. I went to that meeting not aware that that was actually coming up, although I think people in the Pelkie congregation were aware of the idea that that would be brought up there. It came from the delegates for sure. And I think that it was

done in a caring way. There were people from all sides that were at that meeting. People took speaking turns and the delegates from the LLC congregations overwhelmingly

voted on that motion to remove Wolf Lake and Minneapolis from LLC membership. But the division had actually occurred before that. There was differences of spirit, faith, and application, and the fellowship was broken. So you can worry about

if some bylaw was exactly followed or however you want to nitpick it. But that decision, when I came to that meeting, I didn't know we were dealing with that.

And I wondered, oh, are we really there to come to that point? We didn't live in Minneapolis or Wolf Lake and hadn't through most of those meetings. And by the time I heard the delegates from those congregations and many other places say their songs of what they'd been through for a few years, I realized that, yes,

This is God's time. And I can say that I comfortably made my vote on Pelkie's behalf, knowing that that congregation would have felt similarly. And that motion carried. Those congregations

were removed from LLC membership and those members though had strayed they were that's just a formality whether they belong to the LLC but as Briar said the LLC is in God's kingdom but they had left God's kingdom

And LLC wants to be serving God's kingdom. And they didn't want the service of the LLC. And I would even question if Wolf Lake or Minneapolis or some of these other factions that are here and there would even want to be part of LLC. We've heard that they are not happy with LLC. So I don't know on whose behalf he's really speaking here.

Steve Collette is next, and then Aaron Huffman. Well, Steve Collette, Brainerd congregation, we've heard Briar's

lengthy dislocation it does not answer the spirit of how i feel is the spirit of god listen to some of the southwest members relate to five years of discussions and uh

Issues that have developed in time when they have rebuked or disordered the congregation in California. And there has been no change. We hear Briar's support as a delegate of the Californian congregation. His support for the heresy that is in Minneapolis and Wolf Lake churches.

The motion that's on the floor right now is to pass this issue to the LLC Board of Directors. But I'm wondering if that motion would really cover where it would really sit, because we've heard many say that, and I agree, that Briar and that congregation is no longer believing like we do.

Is it more appropriate if we reconsider what type of a motion could be there, and rather send the support of the delegates and the delegations of America to the LLC Board to process expelling California? They're both behind me.

This is on Alaska, . I read these. I wasn't involved in any of these things back in 2022 or back and forth. But having read prior mails back and forth before we came here, it's really apparent that he's attempting

build another lawsuit, and I would caution the delegates against. Going back and forth with him, I think it's somewhat unwise to do so. I don't think we should approach this from a spiritual matter. If he's aligned with the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations,

And he perceives some sort of division remaining in God's kingdom. And I would say that's a good sign that you're not part of it. Because I'm not involved in any of these discussions. And I can tell you that there's peace and harmony and unity in God's kingdom. There isn't division in God's kingdom. And God's kingdom's not this sort of kingdom where you can litigate your way back into it. You can...

with fancy words even here in this discussion. This isn't a court of law that you can convince delegates to vote your way for some sort of a legal reason. But I think we should have maybe considered that these proposals and his presence here is not misstated intent and we should be careful.

against engaging too much with him. And so I do think that the proposal to allow the LLC board to deal with this is maybe a wise one because I would assume they have counsel to guide that work from a legal standpoint. And it doesn't,

If this is what you guys all dealt with back in 2022, then I can say that this is, yeah, it's very telling that Briar is not in the right place and we don't have to try to argue and go back and forth with him and try to prove that because I think that's what he wants. And I would say that if

which i don't think is the case but if he truly does want to somehow you know come back to god's kingdom or that's the desire then i'd say repent and believe the gospel

So there was an article on the LLC website in January... State your name. Sorry, William Sons and Saskatchewan Congregation. So there was an article on January 1st, 2023, highlighting some of the reasons why the NRC happened, including doctrinal reasons. So everyone could go view that if they wanted. It refers specifically to things like sanctification,

and other things like that so but also keep in mind that we should have a childlike faith at the end of the day in order to just endeavor on the way and childlike faith and maybe if it were possible like

could expand on those reasons, but they are clearly stated here in that article. They were reviewed. Can you repeat that, where that article was? Yes, it's on llchurch.org. You can just search up LLC heresy on Google in front of the first results. The article's titled Spiritual Division in North American Zion Led to Heresy, and there's any details more on that. If there were an article in the future further

expanding on those things that would be nice too, but I think it's all there for people to view. Thank you. Neil is dense in the center. No more Navy? I'm not a delegate?

I had similar thoughts with my brother Paul. The separation came long before the July 2022 meeting.

Minneapolis members, by and large, were not any longer going to these other southern Minnesota congregations and vice versa. And also the Menahga, the Menahga members were not attending Wolf Lake, and Wolf Lake was not, the members were not attending Menahga.

And the reason was that we are no longer in the same spirit. The separation came long before the 2022 meeting, and it was a formality that stated that those congregations are no longer in the same spirit.

I'm not part of the LLC. And I'm afraid, Briar, that Central California is in the same path because you're of a different spirit. Okay, we have a motion on the floor.

gentlemen there in the center did you catch my name on the list too i'm sorry did you catch my name on the list i thought i saw you writing down a few ago but i'm not sure if you missed me these legal proceedings that are separated from

faith and spiritual discussions do need to be in alignment with the laws of the land, which are very direct, but maybe can be interpreted in many different ways. And so there's case law and many different angles in which these can be viewed, and it would be helpful to have counsel. And should it be necessary, we can reconvene as a delegation to support the board in

process that they deem as the right approach for this situation. Aaron asked a few minutes ago whether I'm trying to build another lawsuit.

I didn't build one. I've asked again whether you followed the law. Nobody here has answered definitively did we follow the law. I think that's important to do.

there's one good way to not get another lawsuit is to follow the law i don't intend to bring a lawsuit i intend to be here because i see the errors that have made those fundamental errors that i spoke about in the beginning i just heard again from a couple of you that say the kingdom of god referring to this organization referring to the llc and that's a complete wrong understanding

i want to make it clear i'm not here for either of those congregations i'm here for something that is that needs to be corrected that was wrong what was done was incorrect and it's not just the law it's god's law that we've seen violated we're still making that same mistake and that's a discussion i would like to hear is when we say left the kingdom what is this kingdom

You can disagree with my words, and I've had many words that have been wrong. I can own them when they're wrong. But what I would like to hear clearly, specifically from those who said that they do not agree with what I said, let's carve that a little tighter and say, okay, what I read from the Bible and what I read from Martin Luther,

Do we disagree with any of those statements? I think that would be an important thing to have clear so that we don't have clouds of confusion and we can't point to things that we don't agree on. If any of those things that I said, that I should say that I quoted from, are incorrect, you should point those out and tell me, yes, I think that's not correct. There was reference to childlike faith.

And I think this is another one where there's been obfuscation. Christ teaches that we are to be childlike toward Christ alone. As to other men,

when they take interpretations that are different, when they are incorrectly reading from the Bible, or when they are ignoring the Bible, these are Luther's words. We are to be cross-grained, stubborn, grown men. We are to know the Scripture. We are to be able to battle against the false use of the Scriptures.

So I would say my childlike faith is and has always been toward Jesus Christ. And again, if we disagree with Luther, that's okay. We just need to be honest about that.

we can have an amendment to the Constitution to strike reference to Martin Luther and his writings from the Constitution. We can say, well, there's the holy word of God, and then there are these other things that we believe. And if we do that, maybe we should go back to the old name, the apostolic, or was it the American Apostolic Lutheran Church? Or Laestadian Church, I should say. Take Luther out of it so that we're consistent and there's not confusion.

If the point was not to bring a motion again, it sounded like there was a pretty direct motion. So this is just another one of those things that concerns me when people are not outright truthful. Okay, I think this... We got one more hand up. The mic there...

We did get these communications from BLLC from Ryder and one of the brothers shared this portion of scripture from the fourth chapter of Ephesians. It says, they have darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the harboring of their hearts.

As I sit here today, that's what I'm hearing from the writer here. But I guess I would have a question. We do have that motion on the floor that Mr. Huhta made, I can't remember his first name, but before we vote on that, I would like to hear the LLC board staff would be comfortable with that process or the way the motion was written, or if they would need something from the delegates

Personally, myself, I feel like they might struggle with that a little bit, but I'd like to hear from them. Marvin will respond to that. What I heard in the motion is that the delegates

are not carrying Coastal California anymore as a congregation in the same community of faith and understanding and would ask the LLC staff and board to commence whatever expulsion procedures are outlined and would communicate and recall delegates along the way as needed.

Yeah. The motion, as it was read, does not direct us to move towards following the correct steps for expulsion. But it simply says for us to be silent to do. I think that's the way I heard it read. So I would like a clarification from this body. Are you asking us to seek counsel to follow the correct steps?

to remove the congregational member of congregation. Gary.

so my motion originally was stated to leave it in the hands of the llc board and staff to do as they see fit i'm willing to amend my motion to say from this body of delegates here at this annual meeting we would like to leave this matter in the hands of the llc board and staff to continue to take whatever steps are necessary

for expulsion of CCLC or CCLLC. Another matter to look at is, I really think this is, it's all just proceedings because

They no longer walk with us. Phil has not been participating in our meetings up until this last one. And at that meeting, he made it very clear that he didn't bleed with us. And Briar is here, made it very clear that he doesn't bleed with us. So I'm not really sure what their goal is.

um it seems to me he's obviously very well very well spoken a brilliant individual he's a lawyer you know he's got a lot of stuff going for him i would think he would just go start his own organization but for i'm not sure exactly what his purpose is but he is a lawyer and lawyers too so

From that standpoint, I would assume that he's putting some legal action together. And so that's why I would like the LLC to move forward seeking legal counsel if necessary. But yes, from the body of delegates here, I believe it is necessary to move forward with taking those steps or expulsion. They no longer walk with us.

And then another point too is if they take this congregation so seriously, I'm just curious why the congregation has been suspended with California Secretary of State since December of 2021. And the only people in their congregation is the immediate family. It's just, you know, I'm just not understanding what the significance of this whole argument is. He seems to want to convince us of,

some specific error that we participate in. But at the end of the day, I don't feel that I'm going to gain anything by getting into an argument with Briar over this issue. We feel that he's wrong. He feels that we're wrong. I say, let's move forward. He can go his way. We'll go ours. And at some point in the future, any time if he feels that

His heart is softened, we can see your benefits. Would you repeat your motion in a concise manner for the secretary to capture?

From this body of delegates, we would encourage the LLC board and staff to move forward with whatever steps are necessary for the expulsion or expelling of Coastal California Congregation and DC Council if necessary. Is that the motion that you seconded? Was it Ryan?

I agree, Phoenix, Arizona. I second that amended motion. Paul. I just wanted to mention, I don't know all of the people who are associated with the Coastal California congregation.

but i do know some believers that live in california who i'm not convinced are of this spirit i think it's important to or maybe not of that mindset i guess would be okay to say there are some who come regularly to llc phoenix winter services and who i have seen here at these services

and they are not of the Siljander family, and that's what we're referring to as immediate family. So I'm not even sure if they're aware

of these steps that have been taken. And I would want to remember that no matter what happens to the organizational entity of CCLLC, that we can't assume that everybody who's in that area are not believing in the same bond and spirit of the believers as we don't.

as well as X.

Just a quick note on what I said earlier, this is Jared, but again, I didn't say that most of the congregation there is immediate family to the Phil and Debi Siljander family, and it is, with the exception of Carla Skalski, I believe she was included in that list of members. And as far as we know, Carla itself is a believer among us, and efforts have been made to reach out to her separately.

Yeah, I've been at some of these meetings in the Southwest area. Coastal California hasn't been in those meetings very often. They've been invited to every one of them that I'm aware of, at least by email and so on.

The whole intent of serving the believers there is still open. That gospel and the services is preciously called for by the psalm. That would continue to go forth. They can hear the services of God's word and most preciously that gospel and the forgiveness of sins.

Nate here in the front. Nathan Macki from Alaska, new member to the board here. I just say that I'm thankful.

that we've been able to hear so clearly where matters are. And for me personally, speaking to the brother from Cokato on how we feel, I personally feel quite comfortable even though I'm new and feel lacking that

We've been carried in prayers from all you brothers, sisters, and know that we're in your love. And in that, I take personal comfort and am okay with what you decide here.

And it's okay. That's what we're asked to do. So, even for my doubts, can I hear the gospel? Sarina on the window side.

I love you so much. And I guess I just want to share this message here with my brothers and sisters and bring this message back to our family. I love them all so much too.

We all love you. And we wish this wasn't so. For most of the years growing up, we believed in the same way. And it's nothing changed. When the Holy Spirit is removed, a person becomes so blind. And that's what everyone is evidencing here. And we wish that you could see that. But we know that that's a gift from God. It's a choice to leave God's kingdom

But God can also take that away. And I know that you're here because you have a big heart. And that's how I believe you landed at this spot, is because of your big heart. You've been caring and you still care. You've always been no one else who can cover.

And I've been quite intimidated by that, but in days of peace and joy and happiness, it's easy. Like I was telling you at lunchtime, it's so hard for me to stay connected because I'm so awake and here. What I think is this for me? This is where it's recorded in the Bible.

He didn't have to. I was just looking at it. Matthew 12, in the second half, where Jesus heals the blind and deaf man, and the Pharisees accuse him of doing the work of the devil. And you have come here to accuse us of following the devil. And I don't know if you're accusing us of doing the work of the devil. But Jesus' response to the Pharisees was,

All men have sinned and blasphemed. He can be forgiven to man, or against him to man. I don't know exactly how it says it, but he makes it so clear. As you've made it clear here that you don't follow spirits, and the feelings and the decisions that are guided by the Holy Spirit, and in that section of the Bible, he makes it so clear. The blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is not forgivable. Please stop.

Carry everyone with the hope that all could repent. That judgment is not on us. That gift does not come from us but through us. We hold that gift up to you. And I wouldn't say any one of us that we understand blasphemy. But I know we all want to stay so far away from that.

And I don't know if I'll be given the strength to at some point even have cordial relations with my family because they have something to do. And I'm so fearful of this fight. So please help them, that I help them, and that we love them. I know I haven't been in the same, but the courage comes from being amongst the leaders here. And I hope you receive that. I love myself.

Raise your hand, Joe.

I have to say that I came to this meeting, as we were coming here, I had a lot of joy in my heart. The summer services, the fellowship, and I told my brother earlier that songs I am often comes to mind. Travel friends I long to see. And then I saw these emails as I was an alternate delegate with a brother that couldn't attend.

I have to say that I was a little saddened. And sitting here listening, the words of Jesus come to mind in one of the parables in the fourth chapter of Mark where he says that, seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand.

Lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. As I sat here and listened, I have to say that, Briar, I don't know you. My prayers to the Heavenly Father are many. That your thoughts could be opened. That your ears could hear.

Here is the kingdom of God. It's a kingdom of righteousness, peace, and joy. Are we perfect in our mistakes made? No. But we live of the gospel, the forgiveness of sins. And when I sit here, I have to think to myself that this is not, the Holy Spirit is not a spirit of proof.

I have experienced that peace in my own life. But when matters are not well, we don't experience peace. We have restlessness. We have an agenda. So I would just encourage that. May it be that God could open your eyes to see, your ears to hear.

so that unity and love could return, and you could enjoy the true peace, the peace of God, and travel with the children of God and the kingdom of God in unity. But I have to say that I find myself

Very lacking in understanding many of these matters. Very small. We've been doubting. Can I also hear the gospel? This is

Literally the first, virtually almost the first time in four years that I've heard from my sister. I've sent texts. Hey, happy birthday. Hey, Merry Christmas. Hey, here's what our girls are doing. And there is no response.

This is what has been professed as great love, to shun like that. I hear the fear, and I believe it. And that's why I gave distance, because that's what she asked for. She didn't ask me directly for that. She asked other family members for that. But I gave it to her when I got no response, because that seemed pretty clear to be the case.

But this kind of shunning that is taught and encouraged is wrong. And it has destroyed families. It has destroyed relationships. It has destroyed the health of many people. These tactics that can be of intimidation and bullying are wrong. And we must call them out as such.

You've seen a relationship here that's been fractured. We don't have to talk about things that we disagree about as siblings, but there should not be an instruction not to speak to somebody. What is being taught when we say to avoid that? And I think a serious question that we all have to ponder is,

These spirits. What is the Holy Spirit? Because millions have died and gone astray and gone to hell because they did not believe in the Holy Spirit.

And that is my concern for all of you, for each of you. No, I don't take great joy in coming here, but I do care for each of you. In particular, I care for my sister. I do not want any of you lost, and that is my fear, that we do not address these things. We shove them under the rug. We sacrifice truth for peace, and we cannot do that. And like I said before, that makes me tremble, because

There are many who don't know, and I think that there is grace sufficient for that. But there are some who in their hearts know. They know what it's like.

They know from the Bible verses that I've cited to, or read from, I should say, and the portions from Luther that I read from, they know that it's right. They won't say it, but they will do this slow shift over to these positions of, well, yeah, no, there is continual forgiveness, for example. We don't need to open all those topics up. But I would just pray that each of you, in your hearts, in the quiet moments,

When you pray to your God, when you communicate to God, the Heavenly Father, that you ask him, like I always do, and as David did, search me and know my heart. We can talk about intentions, but again, nobody has come and talked to me at all about any of those statements or any of those things that I thought, hey, look, this looks wrong. Here's what the Bible says.

someone who trusts in god and puts their faith in god can freely do that god will give you strength and will not take your faith away and so we should not live in fear yet we all do at times but that is my prayer that we could see these things

correctly. I don't expect you all to hope and change and go and fix. I pray that you do for your own sake, for your own salvation's sake, so that each of you would be insured of your salvation, which is only in Jesus Christ and is not in chasing feelings in a group.

when the holy spirit speaks like jesus said it is through the word of god and we have to be careful like martin luther said about 20 times there that wasn't my those weren't my words they weren't my eloquent words those were the words martin luther speaking from the bible

We have to hear what those words say so that we don't end up like the entire church that was around him. The word of God existed in the Catholic churches for over a thousand years, and God let it be there, even though all around it was wrong practice, wrong teachings.

Out of it, he preserved the believers. Some of them died for their beliefs. A hundred years before Luther, Jan Hus died for his belief, for saying the same things that we all believe, or at least here we purport to believe, in what the Holy Christian Church is.

I just exhort you, and I pray that you would look at those things. And I do want you to know, it is all with love, and I am open to talk with any of you about all of that, because I do not want to see this led astray. Somebody is next.

Your brothers and sisters. I come from afar and therefore I commit to sin.

completely unaware of what has happened in California before this meeting. Maybe I want to use this meeting to understand some

So for ten years ago, when I was in my first visit about the different understandings in America concerning faith matters,

for us Finnish believers, it was a confusing and big matter. What does this mean? And why we were brought greetings from America. There were a few reasons for that. Others explained unto us how they believed.

and they asked do we understand in the same way? Do we believe in these basic questions in the same way?

And always when we had a discussion, we noticed, yes, we believe the same way. And we left one another in God's peace.

Nevertheless, the matters went that way, as we have learned, and these two congregations separated themselves from this mutual congregation. And we understood in Finland that the question was not of legalities or laws, but the Spirit of God separately.

And if it happens this way, it's difficult to travel together if there's a different spirit. Because when there's a different spirit, love disappears.

For us, that was the perspective or view that came from America. Those brothers and sisters who were married to the forefront.

They asked God for understanding and wisdom that they could remain in faith themselves. God protected that the kingdom of God was able to stay pure in a golden candlestick.

And we Finnish believers felt much love towards American brothers and sisters.

Olemme ihastelleet ja nytkin veljet sieltä Suomesta, kun me lähdimme tänne Amerikan suviseuraan, pysyvää välittämää terveisiä. We are marveled over that, and even now when we left Finland, brothers and sisters asked us to convey their feelings. Viimeisissäkin tapaamisissa ja keskusteluissa, missä olemme keskustelleet, mä olen oltanut työstä joskus.

Even at the latest visits where we visited about the work of the kingdom and faith. Brothers asked me to convey this.

That between us there is the lover and the children of God. And we believe in the same way. It feels like God has led the work of his kingdom in such a way.

that more and more the collaboration has deepened in all fronts of the work we have done. And in all of these we have experienced joy, love and mutual understanding.

Now when I listen to this discussion, I still hear the same voice of love.

That these brothers here pray and hope and beg that the believers in California receive a correct understanding of the heart.

I have heard the same call in God's kingdom to this brother who has been visiting and talking here and explaining his point of view.

How do we remain fit? Above all, we care for our own fate.

If we start watching over the entire congregation, it can happen so that our own faith life suffers. Isn't that a familiar parable for us when we see in the Bible, we see that. How do we translate that? Because it's a different way in the English Bible.

Cottage in an herb garden. Cottage in an herb garden. Thank you. There is nobody here who would not be a sinner from the old subject. I ask you to raise your hand. There is probably not a single person who would not say that I am a sinner from the old subject.

I would say, raise up your hand if you have no sin. I don't think that nobody would raise their hand. But we are believing for the sake of God's grace. And we can put away that sin every day that clings on us.

And if we have strength to put sin away, we will remain as God still. And if we put the sin away, love what God's congregation stated us.

In my speech in turn, I want to encourage you, dear children of God. I believe that here in America, in our midst, there is the Kingdom of God.

I want to bring you the greetings of God's love and peace from those who gather in Finland in summer services as our dear brother Jussi has already brought to you.

Does God give us the wisdom and the ability to handle this matter in such a way that it can be realized by God's will in this matter that we are discussing here? God gives us a new wisdom to care for the matter so that God's will will take place in this item that you are revisiting.

Well, when I asked, the speaker turned, feeling very timid in my heart. I asked if I could leave my seat now. Here we are speaking. This discussion

I am a traumatist. During the seven years these discussions have been, that's why I had to go back and forth because I couldn't sit and listen. Devil, you are not, I don't say that, you are not devil. The devil hates believers.

You did as best as you could to describe how you believe, but I'm careful. You must have used hours to put out that explanation. But I hope you understand that we believe differently. We don't hate you. We're not pushing people out. But we believe differently.

And what can you do if you believe differently? If we're honest, we say, I believe. As you lead honest, they say, I believe. You have a right to believe that. But we don't believe that.

Justin Anderson from Rockford. In 2022, pretty young man, younger than I am now.

i didn't understand where both sides were exactly on a lot of things but as the years have moved along and my friends and families who have gone here see it has become more and more clear by their fruits

Who has the Holy Spirit? Who doesn't? And it seems that with the apparent difference in spirit and understanding that maybe it's God's time to

we are in this kingdom of understandings and i would support brothers saying that there's two different spirits

We're moving the Coastal California Congregation from the LLC member congregation. And I have very little understanding of her questions and her connections here.

Sitting here debating whether I should speak. Tyler Hendrickson from Longview. Briar, first of all, to you, it's very saddening to hear you speak today. It's me, Ricky.

I can recall working with you at a confirmation camp many years ago now. At the time, considering you met your brother in faith. Maybe you recall one night at that camp and some young boys came to us with tears in their eyes.

their hands full of their tobacco products, wanting to have their sins forgiven. Consciences were so pricked by not following the instructions we'd given that they couldn't sleep. They came to us as big brothers.

as we were sitting in the lodge there at Hasscib. I remember how all we could do was hug them and cry, as they felt such tender, had such tender consciences that they needed to hear that forgiving opponent. And I remember us sitting in the sanctuary at 81 in the morning,

singing songs of Zion. With the happiness of these boys, they decided it was more important to simply believe in all of the instructions being given than to do what they thought was best and to go their own way. They hear you today going your own way.

The delegates hear, and those others who have spoken are calling to you. Hear them speak. You may not get another chance. Our time on earth is numbered. Days are finite. You don't know. The call to you will come again.

I would have hoped, just like those little boys that we got to see at that camp, your conscience could be softened and you could hear what's being said here today. There's still a blade screaming about his kinko. Everybody here is ready and willing to forgive you if you would just hear them.

please hear what's being said today you don't need to understand it just desire to hear what the kingdom of god is saying on second note i'd like to speak so boldly to our congregation

I feel like we should move forward with the motion that's been put on the floor. With love for those in coastal California that they would see that the delegates who have been asked to come here with their own lack of understanding today, that we hear what the Southwest Area has said and we understand that they've been in these discussions for some time.

We trust that God has led those discussions, and that the outcome that's been brought to us today is one that we support and trust is the right direction to take. I'd also like to say to the board, knowing that the few duties that I have, easy doubts come to mind.

I think this is a path forward today. When the delegates vote, if the vote is to proceed, that vote is telling you that you have the support of all outside. That whatever comes, whatever may come back in response or in the interactions and proceedings that have to take place,

That if we vote to move forward with this, that all those in support, whatever is needed to move forward. Hands in the back.

I'm not a delegate, but I guess I am Briar's aunt. I've known him since he was a baby, and I love him. The members of the California congregation. My family members. I was tangled up in spiritual stuff.

By God's grace, I have such peace in my heart. As members of God's kingdom perfect, if we look at everyone around us, we're all sinful.

But when that through forgiveness is in your heart, there's peace. And here in Briar today, I was there, I lived.

thankful and in a more peaceful place now. I want everyone to know that Briar has a big heart. As does everybody in the California congregation.

God gives that peace. We can't give it, and we can't take it. That's all we remember for each other. Good night.

We have a motion on the floor that's been a lot of discussion on. We had a difficult discussion. We feel that

Briar, you are sincere in your expression of concern and love for us. I hope you understand that much love has been expressed towards you

We have wanted to allow you to speak your concerns, make your motions. I want to say this, that when your motions didn't receive a second,

mean that everything you said and quoted was not believed and understood. Many scripture portions, many portions of Luther's writings, these were not the reason why

weren't seconds to those motions but I think as has been alluded to here there's a long history of these discussions and differences and we feel that these things

have resulted in heresy. We believe that the Holy Spirit has revealed this to the living congregation of God. When there's differences of spirit,

and different interpretations as we've heard even of God's word and of where the Holy Spirit dwells. When those divide congregations, then what else can we do but

have majorities delegates make these difficult decisions we have heard how these difficulties have touched families closely as you have experienced, Briar, your

Sister and aunt have also expressed God's congregation feels great sorrow and love and longing for those who have departed what we believe is a living way

We believe that the Holy Spirit yet leads and guides this little flock that Jesus calls his own. Know how our hearts go out to you. You too could enjoy this same fellowship.

Love and unity. I hope you've been able to gather there at the summer service grounds, there to hear the word of God, to experience fellowship of God's children there. This

encourages us and comforts us that this is the house of God. Even though when there's these differences and difficulties that arise and we have to have these difficult discussions, there is always the love of Christ towards those who we feel have gone astray

And that's what has been expressed here, and I hope you have. Despite all of our faults and lackings, and it's not hard to see our mistakes and our faults and sins, we have endeavored to express the truth of God's word and

Well, the Spirit has revealed these matters to us. So may God grant you even grace to return when you could use those many gifts that God has given you towards that which is correct

a spiritual way it is as the apostle paul has said concerning his own countrymen that he loved what he sorrowed over they have a form of godliness they deny the power thereof

so this kingdom yet calls in love now we have this motion yet before us and i'm for the delegates to vote on that motion that

We have a clarification of the motion.

Jared clarified it and Ryan seconded it. And now we'll ask all in favor of that motion to raise their hands. Any opposed?

Okay. The ballot counters or the election judges have taken note of that and the secretaries as well. So the motion carries. And

We're still in the new business section. I'm sure there's any additional new business. Seeing none, next item 10 would be adjournment.

Is there a motion to adjourn? Tim, yes. Tim makes a motion to adjourn. Is there a second? Steve? Collette back there, I believe it is. Collette? Rainer? Second that motion.

All in favor of adjourning this meeting? Thank you. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all for your participation. I will ask Rick to keep the closing prayer.

before closing prayer i say my own peace i felt a battle hit me i feel like scriptures

Disciples say the hell are about belief. It's real. Still believe the same way. Spiritual conflict is not easy.

It's not personal. I'm sure you've felt the battle. I can see it in your faces.

I read to you the words of the prophet Isaiah from the 40th chapter where he writes comfort me comfort you my people speak the comfort of it to Jerusalem

Cry to her that her warfare is accomplished. Her iniquity is pardoned. She has received the Lord's hand held before her in all of her sins. Dear brothers and sisters,

If you're like me, you belong to hear that word of comfort. I heard the Heavenly Father say that, dear brother, dear sister, you can remain believing. Hold your sins forgiven. In Jesus' name, I'm crushing them. In Jesus' name.

In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen. In Jesus' name, amen.

It's not ours. It's not a personal battle. With God's help, we'll wander into the destination. Let us join those in prayer. Dear Heavenly Father, we don't always know why we experience what we do.

But dear Father, we want to trust your will and your guidance. Help all of us to see the path forward. And if there is a foggy and dark way in front of us, dear Father, help us listen with both ears.

where we hear the call of your son, the Lord Jesus, inviting us to continue our journey on the narrow way that leads to heaven. Dear Father, bless our church. Bless those that work in it. Bless the work that it does

Help it to remain firm on your word. But above all, make it a place where any who desires to reach heaven, when they become members of it, would have that surety of faith. Dear Father, our prayers are weak, but you are strong.

And so we leave all of our cares and worries in your hands. In Jesus' name, amen. I also do mine.

Amen.

We are feeble and unsure. Help us seek our only shelter in our doubt.

God bless you.