What the meeting was
The LLC Board called the meeting by letters signed by board chairman Jim Frantti, secretary Sam Roiko and executive director Eric Jurmu. According to the LLC’s synopsis, 265 people attended in person at the Laestadian Lutheran Church of Monticello, 59 joined from the five Canadian congregations online, and 18 more joined by individual connection: “In total over 340 registered meeting participants from across the continent joined the meeting.” About 200 guests listened at eleven locations, including Minneapolis and Wolf Lake.
Order of business, from the synopsis and the transcript:
- Opening devotion: Ray Waaraniemi (Rockford), Acts 15:22–31.
- Congregation reports: executive director Eric Jurmu called each congregation in alphabetical order for a brief statement. The synopsis counts 30.
- A timeline of “three dozen events, meetings and actions” from the previous six years, presented by LLC Board vice-chairman Jim Jurmu. (It is not in the transcript, which records about twenty minutes of technical difficulties.)
- Jim Frantti’s presentation on “several central doctrinal questions” (synopsis), with 22 slides.
- Open discussion on the afternoon of May 7 and through May 8, moderated by Keith Hillukka (Phoenix), Mark Skoog (Menahga), Loren Hillukka (Elk River) and Loren Keplinger (Longview). The synopsis counts “54 individual extemporaneous speeches from those present at the church and 7 from the online participants.”
- Evening prayer, Steve Haataja; morning prayer, Dan Parks.
- Closing comments, Jim Frantti; closing devotion, Tommi Kinnunen (Cokato), Neh. 4:17–23.
Jim Frantti’s presentation, topic by topic
Left: the LLC Board chairman’s own words, from the transcript of his presentation on the morning of May 7 and from his slides. Right: what speakers from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake said at the same meeting on the same subject.
“These are not meant to be a list of spiritual topics necessarily that have been questioned or causing division. Mainly, it is to touch on some very basic matters of how we believe. It seems like there are some different understandings on [some of these].”
Justification slide 1
“We are only justified by faith. The writer of the letter to the Hebrews says that without faith it is impossible to please God [Heb. 11:6] So, it is only by faith, which is a grace gift. It is only by God’s grace. It is only by faith that God sees in us the merits of his Son. We cannot add anything to this.”
“Our foundation of faith remains unchanged, founded on the Lord Jesus Christ. We believe that the Holy Bible is the highest authority in questions regarding faith and life and man is made righteous alone by faith, alone by grace and alone by the merits of Christ.”
“But my salvation and justification is alone by faith, alone by grace, alone by the merits of Christ, by Scripture alone. All glory [goes] to God.”
The office of the Holy Spirit slides 2–5
“It is good to read the Bible, dear brothers and sisters, and to be familiar with it. But reading and studying the printed word cannot give life. The spirit gives life. … So, the office of the Holy Spirit is that it calls, gathers, enlightens and sanctifies. It can give life through the Living Word. It is our teacher. It is our comforter. It is our sanctifier.”
“We are all together the body of Christ and are led by the Holy Spirit, that is connected to God’s Word.”
“There has been talk about spirits. There has been an exhortation to repent of a wrong spirit. This is not biblical. It is a doctrinal error. … So the question is, if repentance is to be made, it needs to be defined – make repentance over what?”
On the recordNo Minneapolis or Wolf Lake speaker disputed this part of the presentation. The objection was to calls to repent of a “wrong spirit” without naming a doctrine or a sin.
The congregation of God: the Word and the congregation slides 6–10
“God’s word is our highest authority. … The word is in the congregation. That is where the Living Word is found. … God’s congregation and the Word of God are inseparable. … It is our highest authority, but it is found in the congregation.”
“Does it mean that a group of believers don’t err? No. Does it mean that a board or a whole congregation can’t err? No. But it means that God’s congregation on earth does not err.”
“We believe that the Holy Bible is the highest authority in questions regarding faith and life”
“If there is a wrong understanding by anyone, I pray that we would adhere to our by-laws which state: The Holy Word of God is the only rule according to which all doctrines are to be examined and judged.”
“Are those decisions, even though they were made by the congregation, a place where the congregation [has] erred?”
Forgiveness: the keys, and how forgiveness is received slides 11–12
“God’s congregation is quick to loose and slow to bind.”
“So, how does a person receive forgiveness? It seems like the Bible is so clear on this [matter]. Forgiveness happens through the preaching of the Gospel.”
“We agreed with the sayings of Jesus that we would always forgive.”
“We desire to hear those words of the gospel – the good message of Christ – believe your sins forgiven in Jesus’ name and blood. We bless our children and we bless each other.”
Living in grace: “the continual protection of God’s grace” slide 13
“I would like to especially comment on how God’s children live under the ‘continual protection of God’s grace’. … When we fall into committed sin, whether by thought, word or deed, God does not cast us off. We do not lose faith every time we fall into sin. If that were the case, we also would have no hope. … But God’s grace carries us and protects us. But it does not mean that we do not put away sin.”
“We live under grace, and I can believe my sins are forgiven at every moment. … In the death and resurrection of Christ, all of our sins were reconciled. That does not mean that I do not desire to use the grace gift of confession or to take care of offenses.”
“Let’s talk about the righteousness of life. It is a fruit of faith. It follows the righteousness of faith.”
An LLC ministerKeith Waaraniemi, former Minneapolis minister, the next day: “We live in the Forgiveness of sins every moment. We are carried by the grace of God. Our sins are cleansed in the blood of Christ. We are heaven-acceptable, not because of our own purity or keeping up-to-date so to speak In confession. We don’t lose faith when we fall into sin.” He went on to ask whether emphasizing this side loses sight of “the other side.” (Transcript, May 8 [2:48:28].)
Confession slides 14–18
“We speak of confession that it is a grace privilege. It means that it is not forced and it is not demanded. … If we put the wrong emphasis on confession, there is a danger that we make it a merit of our own by which we earn forgiveness.”
“That does not mean that I do not desire to use the grace gift of confession or to take care of offenses.”
“Recently we were told the following: There is a group of people that believe when their child comes to them to confess a sin, the parent tells them – that is okay; you don’t need to confess your sins; they are already forgiven. This is simply not true.”
The Church Law of Christ slide 19
“We are taught that we care for matters in the smallest circle in which offenses have occurred. … There are matters that are not personal offenses – they are public matters in the congregation. When the matters are such and they are discussed in the congregation, it is not wrong.”
“When we look at God’s Word, we can resort back to Jesus’s teaching about the Church Law of Christ. … Can we ever err by approaching a brother or sister In the first step of the Church Law of Christ?”
“Many faults have been brought up. Many of the faults are at an individual level. I would encourage that they would be taken care of at that level.”
Servants of the congregation slides 20–21
“So, God calls to serve through his congregation for these special duties. By the way, he can also free us from serving. If he decides that our time of serving is over for any reason he can through the congregation ask us to sit. I have often said – God does not owe me any explanation of why he calls and why he asks to sit.”
“There has been instruction in God’s Kingdom that there are two reasons why a speaker should rest. … I have been in a couple of those discussions where the speakers have been taken down. The conclusion was that there was no doctrinal error in those speaker’s speeches. And we all know that they have not been living in open sin. So, why are they resting?”
“For me personally, I feel that our speakers are in the love of our congregation. They speak correctly. The disinviting [of speakers] is wrong.”
An LLC ministerRandy Herrala (Rockford): “I don’t accept this understanding that it must be only a matter of doctrine or open sin. The Holy Spirit can speak in the congregation.” (Transcript, May 8 [1:45:10].)
How do we see God’s kingdom? slide 22
“How do we see God’s Kingdom? How does it look to you today? Do you see the pillar and ground of truth? … Do you see your spiritual mother? … dear heavenly Father, don’t let me lose sight of the beauty of this Kingdom. Let me remain in its unity and fellowship and care, because it is the only way that I will get to heaven.”
“When we have met as a board, our hope for this meeting is that we would get help – that we would get help from this group, from the golden candlestick.”
“should a mother starve her child and call it love? … Does the True Mother want to divide the body?”
On justification, the Holy Spirit, the Word, forgiveness through preaching, living in grace, confession and the Church Law of Christ, what Minneapolis and Wolf Lake speakers said at this meeting matches the chairman’s statement, often in nearly the same words. The one subject on which they spoke differently was practice: resting ministers and not sending ministers, where the LLC chairman said God “does not owe me any explanation” and the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake speakers asked for one – not from God, but from the fallible men who made those decisions.
They agreed
What Minneapolis and Wolf Lake speakers said about the presentation itself, and how the LLC recorded it.
“First, I chose to speak because the presentation that Jim [Frantti] gave this morning was very uplifting to me. I felt that it perfectly reflects my faith. I don’t have anything that I would have added to it or taken away from it. I also feel it is what we tried to teach our children in Sunday School in Minneapolis. It is not our desire to battle. It is not our desire to be carried as believers in unity but to have a different teaching.”
“Jim Frantti’s presentation yesterday was a very good starting point. My heart said amen. That is how I believe. … If we could go back to those slides one by one to see how we believe. If we agree on those points. And if we agree on what was presented, then we can start this open discussion.”
“Jim, I agreed with your presentation. Can we be free and personally confess our faith and have a respectful discussion about doctrine and how we believe?”
“I was expecting a little bit more discussion about the topics in that presentation, because they are the core of our faith.”
“The question has been raised: What is the doctrine of difference? We heard that everyone said that they believe exactly as Jim Frantti presented in the presentation. My heart said amen to the presentation, as well. It is one thing to say: that is how I believe and teach. But what happens in practice? What are the fruits?”
“About a dozen speeches took differing positions on the spiritual problems of recent years, yet none expressed disagreement with Jim Frantti’s presentation covering central doctrinal questions.”
The request to go through the slides one by one was not taken up. Williston minister Tanner Collette answered it: “As Tuula [Mattila] mentioned, she would like to go through Jim’s [Frantti] presentation point-by-point. I think the gospel first needs to be preached. … We do not have to have an arbitrator and come to a mutual conclusion.” (Transcript, May 8 afternoon [16:32].)
The two points left out
On the first afternoon, Wolf Lake’s report-giver named the only two doctrinal points on which Wolf Lake and the LLC had disagreed in their meetings. The presentation addressed neither.
“I would have to say that the meetings that Wolf Lake has had with the LLC brothers, we have only discussed three items. [One was about] abstinence. At the third meeting [between LLC and Wolf Lake] we agreed and said amen. The only other two items that we have ever discussed are forgiveness and the robe of righteousness. I guess that we disagreed [on those topics]. On the issue of forgiveness, would there ever be a time … I don’t know how to say it. We agreed with the sayings of Jesus that we would always forgive. Whether there is a time or never a time or could be a time, I think we leave that in God’s realm. I think that the intent is that we should always forgive with the prayer that God is guiding us. We leave it to God to decide that matter. On the robe of righteousness, in the last meeting with LLC in Brainerd, one of the Wolf Lake Brothers explained how he believes about the robe of righteousness, which is Christ’s robe. [He said], it cannot be stained by our sins. We can lose the robe, but it cannot be stained by our sins. It is pure and holy. But the comment from the other side of the table was – for a lack of better words – of course [the robe] can be stained with our sins. Those are the only two items that we have disagreed on.”
1. Withholding forgiveness
The question had a history. Rockford’s report-giver, Jeremy Glynn of the Rockford board, dated the public dispute to an April 2016 meeting in Minneapolis: “At that meeting there was much discussion around the topic: ‘would there ever be a time when we would not forgive?’ Through the course of that discussion, it was evident that there were different views on that matter.” (Transcript, congregation reports [1:28:47].) The presentation came to forgiveness and said this:
“We have heard many questions and we have had many discussions in recent times about forgiveness. I don’t have time to go into a lot of detail on this. I would like to especially comment on how God’s children live under the ‘continual protection of God’s grace’.”
Nothing further in the presentation or the closing comments says whether there is ever a time when forgiveness is not to be preached to one who asks. The nearest statement from the LLC side came that afternoon from Monticello minister Steve Kallinen, who did not name or quote anyone: “There have been different understandings on this topic. … They do not want to accept the portion of the Bible that said: Sins that are retained, they are retained before God in heaven.” (Transcript, May 7 [1:51:35].)
2. The robe of righteousness
The presentation mentioned robes once, in a list of Bible passages that encourage putting away sin: “In Revelation 7, it tells about that throng that came out of great tribulations. They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Transcript, presentation, before [1:03:42].) It did not say whether the robe of righteousness can be stained. The one LLC minister who answered Wolf Lake on the point agreed with Wolf Lake’s wording:
“I have been thinking of the speech that Bruce [Johnson] gave. … One of the topics was the robe of righteousness. Bruce made the statement that we cannot soil Christ’s robe. I believe it. There is no way that we can as faulty human beings soil Christ’s robe. … I think the difference in interpretation is that – at least I believe in this way – the washing of the robes is the washing of the robes of conscience. … I think that the interpretation – maybe I am wrong on this – among those that do not believe that way is that their robes are always washed in the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. So, we don’t need to take care of those sins that are bothering us in our life of faith. I think that is where the divide or the difference is. … If I am wrong in this understanding, I would like to be corrected.”
No Minneapolis or Wolf Lake speaker said that sins need not be cared for. Sue Johnson of Wolf Lake, quoted above, said the opposite: “That does not mean that I do not desire to use the grace gift of confession or to take care of offenses.” Emily Parks of Minneapolis said the LLC side’s own wording had changed: “I remember earlier it was said that the robe can be stained. There was a Finnish Minister … He said the opposite. The robe actually cannot be stained. I believe from that point on the message had changed.” (Transcript, May 8 afternoon, ending [42:50].)
“What is that ‘different voice’?”
“We had a meeting when the entire LLC board showed up in Wolf Lake [in December 2019]. Our congregation members pleaded with them. What was the ‘different voice’ that you wrote about in the Voice of Zion and on your website? What is that ‘different voice’? The question was never answered.”
The LLC’s synopsis records the same request: those who differed “asked for explanations of doctrinal differences between the groups and stated that no one has explained what the ‘other voice’ is that has been written and spoken about.” (Synopsis, p. 2.)
The LLC’s statement of faith at Monticello was specific on the subjects where there was no disagreement, and silent on the two subjects Wolf Lake identified as disputed. On the robe of righteousness, the only LLC minister to address it agreed with Wolf Lake’s wording and placed the difference in a view he attributed, with a caveat, to others. No speaker from Minneapolis or Wolf Lake stated that view.
“Two groups”
“When we hear these criticisms of the North American Zion, local boards, and the LLC Board, and these accusations of spiritual abuse, it seems we cannot say there are no differences or divisions among us. It’s clear there are two groups in the North American Zion.”
“It was clear yesterday and today that there are two different groups in the Zion of North America. And I simply say that we cannot go on that way.”
“At the meeting it was broadly acknowledged that two groups exist.”
The words were used on both sides. Tuula Mattila of Minneapolis said on May 8: “It was very clear that there are two groups, two sides.” She described them as she had heard them portrayed the day before, one group “very poor, weak, simple” and the other “very knowledgeable,” and added: “What is sad, I don’t personally find myself in either of these groups.” (Transcript, May 8 [1:01:54].)
In the same closing comments Frantti asked: “There have been thoughts of wrong teachings. What are these wrong teachings? The teaching that I hear today in God’s kingdom is the same as I heard as a child.” (Synopsis, p. 5.) And: “The question is not whether a minister is sent or not to a certain congregation, but the question is what has caused division between us.” (Synopsis, p. 4.)
What the meeting offered when asked what the difference was is a list of concerns. The synopsis gives it as the points “expressed by many”:
- “There is a concern that a different understanding on the doctrine of the congregation exists in our midst.”
- “The view of the congregation or kingdom of God has dimmed.”
- “The relationship between the Holy Spirit, the congregation, and the written Word of God has become confused.”
- “For some the emphasis has shifted to knowledge and human reasoning.”
- “The grace gift of confession has been diminished by the fear of it becoming a work.”
- “The Church Law of Christ has been misconstrued, thereby restricting open discussion of public matters.”
- “There is concern over fruits that have been apparent that are not fruits of the Spirit, such as bitterness, harsh accusations, deceitfulness, pride, etc.”
Two LLC ministers named the doctrine of the congregation. Sam Roiko: “the crux of the matter is the doctrine of the congregation.” (Transcript, May 8 [52:08].) Keith Waaraniemi: “I really feel and understand from my own experiences In Minneapolis as well as discussions with Wolf Lake that the doctrine of the congregation Is one doctrinal error. The independent, even adversarial attitude of the local congregation toward the rest of Christianity is not right.” (Transcript, May 8 [2:48:28].) Others on the LLC side said they could not say what the difference was. Rockford minister Rick Nevala: “The issues are talked about at a high level. No one speaks what they believe.” (Transcript, May 7 [2:15:45].) Detroit’s report-giver, Paul Huhta: “I have to admit that I do not know what a lot of those specifics are. However, when I think of it in terms of how the Holy Spirit governs God’s Congregation, From that perspective, I feel that it is pretty evident that there are two spirits.” (Transcript, May 7 [3:00:30].)
The statement that there are “two groups” was not paired, in the closing comments, the synopsis or any speech in the transcript, with a statement of what the other group teaches or how its doctrine differs from the LLC’s. The doctrine of the congregation is named as a “concern,” and the presentation’s own statement on the congregation (“Does it mean that a board or a whole congregation can’t err? No.”) is the premise Minneapolis and Wolf Lake speakers argued from. Two months later, on July 3, 2021, the LLC annual meeting voted to remove Minneapolis and Wolf Lake sermons from the LLC website (transcript).
Sources
Meeting synopsis and closing comments
The LLC’s synopsis of the continent-wide meeting of ministers, board members and delegates, with Jim Frantti’s closing comments. Eight pages, prepared by the LLC Pastoral Committee, Board Chairman, Board Secretary and Executive Director and sent to LLC congregations on May 14, 2021. The cover email said it “can be freely shared among believers as you see fit.”
Typed transcript of the full meeting
About 55,000 words: the congregation reports, Jim Frantti’s presentation and slide text, the floor discussion on both days and the closing comments. It does not include Jim Jurmu’s timeline or one minute of the presentation ([36:00]–[36:52]). No recording is available to check it against. The typist’s own bracketed comments, which are not speech, are left out of the version on this site.