The Laestadian Lutheran Church's own book against its practice

The LLC's own Constitution says the same. Adopted 1 July 2000:

“Said Corporation holds that the Holy Word of God is the highest authority and only measure according to which all doctrines and teachings in said Corporation are to be examined and judged.”

LLC Constitution, Section V

“The members of said Corporation believe that the Kingdom of God is one and indivisible. They also believe that there is only one saving faith, one baptism and one Holy Christian Church, or communion of saints, wherein God dwells through His Holy Spirit, and wherein He causes repentance and the forgiveness of sins to be preached for the salvation of souls.”

LLC Constitution, Section VI

The same principle is on the LLC's website: Position statements (“God's Word is Christian faith's highest authority”) and How we believe (“the Holy Bible is the highest authority in questions regarding faith and life”).

In 77 sermons by 38 ministers, and 37 statements at 18 recorded meetings (2018–2026), LLC ministers and leaders said the congregation is not below the Word, that the two are “one and inseparable,” that one must submit one’s understanding of Scripture to the congregation, or that reading or quoting the Bible marks the wrong spirit. All of them, with the recording at each →

At the 2022 annual meeting a Minneapolis delegate read the Constitution's own words to the delegates:

“And so the [LLC] Constitution says that member congregations confess [living] faith [which is founded on] the [Holy] Word of God, [in] which Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone. And they also hold the Word of God as the highest authority, and all instructions and teachings of the said corporation … These are based upon the authority of the Holy Scriptures. So I would recommend here that we don't talk about dividing, because that's contrary to Scripture.”

Gary Lehtola, LLC annual meeting, 2022-07-02 ▶ 00:07:12 transcript

“All I want to do is get to heaven and believe with the [rest] of Zion. The document is there just as a guideline. If you don't have the Holy Spirit, you have to lean on these things.”

Andrew Skoog, LLC annual meeting, 2022-07-02 ▶ 01:47:31 transcript

“Even in the recent spiritual storms, there has been, there was even this kind of a question as to which is higher. ... That is, is God's word above the congregation or is God's congregation above God's word? ... And as the brothers have noted, that that is an absurd question. ... They are one and inseparable.”

Samuel Roiko, Elk River, sermon, 2024-08-19 ▶ 00:02:53

“As one older brother who has gone to his rest even pointed out, and he said that you can even take these Bibles that are written here. ... and burn every single one of them and destroy off of smartphones every single Bible app. ... I added that part.”

Samuel Roiko, Elk River, sermon, 2024-08-19 ▶ 00:03:23

“That is what happened in this last heresy. ... They placed the word of God above the congregation of God. ... The congregation of God ... and the undying word of our Heavenly Father are one, two in one.”

George Koivukangas, Cokato, sermon, 2024-07-29 ▶ 00:25:40

In private, the LLC's leaders conceded the rule they condemned in public. At the ministers' teleconference and the Midwest boards meeting in November 2021:

“It seems like one matter is the doctrine of the congregation. We will have a chance to hear the very good presentation that our brother Matti Taskila prepared. ... Of course, it is important. God's Word is our highest authority. God's Word is the light that shows the pathway to heaven. God's Word is our foundation.”

Jim Frantti, Ministers' teleconference, 2021-11-04 typed transcript (PDF)

“Then the doctrine of the congregation. The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Godhead. It governs the congregation. We have discussed it in recent years. Some feel like we are emphasizing the spirit without the word. There have been phrases like, spirit, spirit, spirit. It is like – that is all we speak about is the spirit. Of course, the spirit reveals what is in God's Word. It cannot be otherwise. We cannot separate and decide ourselves that this is the spirit, if it is not according to God's Word. God's Word is the highest authority.”

Keith Waaraniemi, Midwest boards meeting (MBMAC), 2021-11-20 ▶ 02:34:49 transcript

Keith Waaraniemi concedes the rule and reverses it in the same breath: the Spirit “governs the congregation” and “reveals what is in God's Word,” so that what the Word says is settled by the congregation's sense of the Spirit. The book has it the other way: the congregation is “the servant of the revelation” (p. 55). His was a long speech, about 26 minutes, gathered in advance: he said he had “tried to gather some thoughts together from things that have been said recently” (02:30:12), and he quoted the meeting synopsis point by point, Uljas, the Athanasian Creed and a 1937 article. In 2018 a speaker taking the LLC's side had held it against the Minneapolis brothers that they brought “research and prepared speeches” instead of hearts that said amen:

“Those brothers didn't bring their own wisdom there. They didn't bring their own research and prepared speeches and thorough Bible knowledge. They simply brought their hearts and they listened to that word and they confirmed with the spirit that was in them that it matched how they believed and how they had been raised and how they understood God's kingdom to work.”

Unidentified speaker (LLC side), meeting with the Minneapolis congregation, 31 May 2018 ▶ 02:25:13 transcript

41 statements (2011–2026) on what the SRK and Finnish believers hold on these questions, and on the claimed unity of faith. All of them, with the recording at each →

The SRK board in 2020, the joint meeting of September 2022, and the SRK's delegate at the 2026 annual meeting:

“The SRK and its Board of Directors have full confidence in the operations of the LLC. We feel that we have mutual faith and the ensuing fellowship of the Holy Spirit.”

SRK Board of Directors, Finland (SRK), document, 2020-11-11 document (PDF)

“In various discussions with the LLC, a connection and common understanding that is created by the same faith and the Holy Spirit have been felt. There has been no doubt that we believe exactly the same way. In Finland and Sweden, the understanding has remained that the congregation of God is also present among believers in North America.”

Harri Vähäjylkkä, Oulu (SRK-LLC-SFC joint meeting), document, 2022-09-30 document (PDF)

“In the discussion it was brought out that the view of some is that in North America, in LLC congregations, the law is preached to the believers, while in Finland grace is preached. The meeting representatives did not agree with this observation.”

Harri Vähäjylkkä, Oulu (SRK-LLC-SFC joint meeting), document, 2022-09-30 document (PDF)

“Others explained unto us how they believed. and they asked do we understand in the same way? Do we believe in these basic questions in the same way? And always when we had a discussion, we noticed, yes, we believe the same way. … That between us there is the [love of the] children of God. And we believe in the same way.”

Tapani Kinnunen (SRK board; interpreted by Jouko Haapsaari), LLC Annual Meeting 2026, 2026-07-03 ▶ 01:46:30 transcript

Yet Finland does not hold these lines: freedom there, rules here.

In 2011 the SRK board named “our attitude toward television and birth control” among the problems of the caretaking era and regretted “the diminishment of the conscience of the individual”:

“Problems arose which needed to be discussed together. Such problems were, for example, our attitude toward television and birth control. … In addition to these phenomena, the following began to appear: the diminishment of the conscience of the individual, injurious speech, and withholding forgiveness. Humiliation of another person is never right, neither is physical, mental, or spiritual violence. We regret the errors in doctrine and the abuses that occurred.”

SRK Board of Directors, Finland (SRK), document, 2011-10 document (PDF)

At Elk River in 2019 a speaker recalled the official ruling that believing teachers may not use television in the classroom, and said believers have called it an error:

“the decision that was made is that a believing teacher cannot and should not use television as a teaching tool in any form or fashion in the classroom. Hundreds of believing teachers were there and they left that meeting dumbfounded. … it said that we cannot make any fast and firm rule that the Holy Spirit will guide us. Case by case. So I have heard believers say that that decision, official decision that was made was an error.”

Unidentified speaker, Elk River, 2019-10-19 ▶ 00:31:45 transcript

LLC ministers themselves describe the difference, and Finnish members who moved here describe what it felt like:

“Here in this country, we're approaching the Super Bowl, and cultures being different. There in Finland, when I was there, there was the World Junior Championship hockey. I felt bad one night when they told me that there were only so few there because there's the hockey game on. We're not far from those temptations here either”

Richard Nevala, Rockford, sermon, 2016-01-24 ▶ 00:32:14

“years ago we had a congregation discussion meeting in Phoenix and our congregation was discussing celebrating Halloween. … And we were having this discussion, and there's some brothers that come from Finland, some speaker brothers, And we were describing to him what happens on this night in our country and how people celebrate it … They were shocked. And at that time we decided this is not the way we want to celebrate this evening.”

James Moll, Prescott Valley, sermon, 2023-11-01 ▶ 00:06:36

“So I moved here from Finland about eight years ago. And pretty soon after we moved here, I started noticing something around in sermons. … Speakers didn't quite say I was used to hear or how that game was supposed to go. And they were really humble and small changes, but often they were towards our own endeavor or our own words or … Or maybe sometimes law-minded or some kind of demand of our own that how we keep our faith.”

Tuula Mattila, LLC Annual Meeting 2022, 2022-07-02 ▶ 00:50:16 transcript

“I came here 13 years ago and I felt that I came to the jail. I live in Christian Freedom in Finland. It means that there was nobody watching … And for people, when they say here that, yeah, we live in freedom, maybe you don't know what the freedom is. And it's different. There's many things that have been different here.”

Unidentified speaker, Minneapolis (MLLC), 2018-05-31 ▶ 02:32:55 transcript

Both cannot be true. Either the LLC's rules on television, sports, Halloween, makeup and earrings are doctrine, in which case the two bodies do not believe alike, or they are culture, in which case the LLC has done what the book warns against on p. 180 and made them prerequisites for salvation. The SRK’s own statements and its book do not hold these lines. Every statement on this, with the recording at each →

When John Lehtola showed that he taught what the SRK teaches, he was rebuked for quoting the SRK.

Told that he was speaking a different doctrine, John Lehtola answered by showing that what he said was what the SRK itself says. If the two bodies believe “exactly the same way,” the SRK’s yearbooks, speakers’ meetings and Summer Services are the plainest evidence of what is believed. At Elk River in October 2019 he read from them: the 2017 SRK yearbook, O. H. Jussila (1942), and Hannu Kallunki at the 2018 speakers’ meeting.

“In the yearbook, SRK yearbook in 19, or 2017, it was about the Word of God and here it says, the Bible, the written Word of God is the only authority. The Bible is the only authority. It is above all and it is above everybody.”

John Lehtola (identified from context), Elk River, 2019-10-19 ▶ 00:44:40 transcript

“In the speaker's meeting back in 2018, so just over a year ago, … the presenter, Hannu Kallunki, several of you may know his name. He said, the teacher or a preacher is not an authority. Rather, the authority is the unchanging Word of God.”

John Lehtola (identified from context), Elk River, 2019-10-19 ▶ 00:46:05 transcript

The replies did not say any quotation was wrong, or that the SRK does not hold it. They faulted him for quoting:

“I think Brother John, when you're reading quotes from this mother [brother] or that brother, we want to be careful of that and not giving credit to them.”

Unidentified speaker, Elk River, 2019-10-19 ▶ 00:50:30 transcript

“We certainly can't take man's word and pass that on as understanding. Men, individual men, err. … These articles that are quoted, I don't know the full context, quoting such a small portion of an article, what is the full context?”

Unidentified speaker, Elk River, 2019-10-19 ▶ 01:07:02 transcript

Two years later a speaker from Dunblane answered him the same way. In 2018 he had already pointed out that what he read came from the SRK’s own Summer Services:

“What John Lehtola was saying, I guess I would call it cherry-picking a certain portion out of a sermon to find that which feeds what I would like to hear. … I don't think it's fair to take small and certain portions or even single sermons to justify one's actions or beliefs.”

Loren Ylioja, Dunblane, MBMAC, 2021-11-20 ▶ 03:54:03 transcript

“I read two statements on continual forgiveness. Well, the first one wasn't even, didn't even use the term continual forgiveness. It was continual grace. The second one was continual forgiveness from [SRK] Summer Services 20[17], and that's all I said.”

John Lehtola, Minneapolis (MLLC), 2018-09-30 ▶ 01:05:19 transcript

The unity is invoked when the SRK speaks for the LLC; when the SRK’s own words are read to show that a brother believes the same, they become “man’s word.” More on the charge against reading and quoting at point 15.

In 70 sermons by 35 ministers, and 43 statements at 16 recorded meetings (2017–2026), LLC ministers and leaders condemned the term “continual forgiveness,” called it confusing, or distanced themselves from it. In 51 of these statements the speaker did not quote the term at all, but attacked an “always forgiven” or “once forgiven, always forgiven” teaching, a freedom to sin that no Minneapolis or Wolf Lake statement in the record teaches. 32 of these speakers also preached daily or continual forgiveness themselves. All of them, with the recording at each →

Ministers preached against the term as a mark of the error, often while affirming what it means:

“This term and how it's being used and spoken of bothers me. And it is continual forgiveness that we live in continual forgiveness.”

Randall Haapala, Rockford, sermon, 2018-02-18 ▶ 00:18:23

Randall Haapala, Cokato, 17 Jan 2021 at [00:31:47]: “A God that will continually remind us, continually forgive us when the heart is penitent.” ▶ 00:31:47

Randall Haapala, Cokato, 23 Aug 2026 at [00:20:24]: “A God that wants to continually forgive us for our sins and our doubts.” ▶ 00:20:24

“I see this teaching of continual forgiveness fatal. Fatal. It’s killing the faith. It is not right.”

Jouko Haapsaari, LLC ministers camp, Stony Lake, document, 2018-04-14 typed transcript (PDF)

“The phrase of continual forgiveness has come up now and then. It seems to be a [burr under] some saddles. Maybe it would be good if we could just not think about that phrase.”

Jim Frantti, LLC board meeting with the Wolf Lake congregation, 2019-12-07 ▶ 00:29:50 transcript

Jim Frantti, 7 Dec 2019 at [00:30:41]: “We need to be able to live everyday and every moment in forgiveness.” ▶ 00:30:41 transcript

“that we don't want to use words, that we as humans can so easily misunderstand, that we can so easily begin to become confused with this way that we believe,”

Loren Keplinger, Longview, sermon, 2022-07-24 ▶ 00:21:31

Loren Keplinger, Longview, 24 Jul 2022 at [00:23:09]: “if we remember this, that as believers, we are continually forgiven.” ▶ 00:23:09

“That once you're forgiven, you're always forgiven. That you have continual forgiveness. That's in the hidden heart of man where Satan dwells.”

George Koivukangas, Cokato, sermon, 2024-08-11 ▶ 00:27:32

George Koivukangas, Cokato, 6 Jan 2019 at [00:18:42]: “We are in continual need of the gospel of the forgiveness of sins every day.” ▶ 00:18:42

George Koivukangas, Cokato, 23 Aug 2020 at [00:32:22]: “And He has forgiven us our sins and continues to forgive us our sins daily, each day anew.” ▶ 00:32:22

“Some have tried to say that once you're in God's kingdom, you don't need forgiveness. We have a continual forgiveness. And I guess in some ways they're correct because we live of the grace of God.”

Richard Nevala, Menahga, sermon, 2026-01-13 ▶ 00:31:07

Richard Nevala, Menahga, 12 Jan 2025 at [00:18:26]: “When we believe, we live in forgiveness. We live of God's grace.” ▶ 00:18:26

The phrase “once forgiven, always forgiven” appears in the record only in the mouths of LLC ministers describing the error. No Minneapolis or Wolf Lake statement teaches it; the book itself says faith can be lost (p. 105), and so did the accused.

“But those heresies have been from years gone by, and sometimes when questions of forgiveness come up, we remember how it was that once forgiven, always forgiven.”

Howard Parks, Menahga, sermon, 2017-03-12 ▶ 00:18:48

Howard Parks, 12 Mar 2017 at [00:19:18]: “And we need that power of the gospel constantly in our endeavor of faith.” ▶ 00:19:18

The charge rested on how the term might be heard, not on what anyone taught. At the Minneapolis Congregation Meeting of 30 September 2018, a participant pressing the concern conceded as much:

“The question is the confusion around continual forgiveness. That has been discussed and when we try to drill down into what does this continual forgiveness mean, it comes to grace. But the message that people hear whether you believe it or not is freedom to sin.”

unidentified speaker, Minneapolis Congregation Meeting, 2018-09-30 ▶ 01:02:06 transcript

Asked “Who's coming to that conclusion, freedom to sin?”, he answered that it was “the message that many people hear from your words.” The man he was questioning, apparently John Lehtola, replied: “I haven't heard one person who believes that way” (01:02:49).

In 35 sermons by 25 ministers, and 66 statements at 14 recorded meetings (2017–2026), LLC ministers and leaders said the gospel can or must be withheld from one who asks, that asking is not repenting, or that something must come first. All of them, with the recording at each →

Jon Bloomquist of the LLC staff, explaining the LLC's position to the Wolf Lake board. The Wolf Lake side had cited the 1947 Finnish speakers' meeting, which is the same position the book gives on p. 208:

“There was a speaker's meeting in Finland in 1947. This was the question. Do we preach forgiveness to heretics or do they have to first clarify that they ask forgiveness for false doctrine and heresy? The matter was discussed. The conclusion was that "Forgiveness and repentance must be preached to the heretics as in general to those who are on the outside [of faith]".”

Esa Vilkama, Menahga and Wolf Lake boards meeting, 2021-03-26 ▶ 00:49:56 transcript

“Most recently with regard to Esau, Keijo Nissila writes about that in his book [on Hebrews]. The understanding is that there are situations where we as believers cannot preach the gospel to somebody who asked. Some of the confusion is also from the fact some equate the word to 'ask' with 'repent'.”

Jon Bloomquist, Menahga and Wolf Lake boards meeting, 2021-03-26 ▶ 00:31:23 transcript

Jon Bloomquist, LLC board meeting with the Wolf Lake congregation, 7 Dec 2019 at [04:45:36]: “this understanding that we are teaching the withholding of forgiveness. It is nowhere near the truth.” ▶ 04:45:36 transcript

“I think it is a mistake if you equate 'ask' with 'repent'. That seems to be, at least to me, the fundamental problem. [someone asks, what?] In your understanding, if you equate the word 'ask' with 'repent' -- they are not the same thing. I think, as Nick expressed, that ought to always be the case.”

Jon Bloomquist, Menahga and Wolf Lake boards meeting, 2021-03-26 ▶ 00:34:01 transcript

Jon Bloomquist, LLC board meeting with the Wolf Lake congregation, 7 Dec 2019 at [04:45:36]: “this understanding that we are teaching the withholding of forgiveness. It is nowhere near the truth.” ▶ 04:45:36 transcript

“If you were walking down the road and you saw your neighbor's dog put its foot in a trap. You went over there and just petted and patted it. … That is in essence what we are doing, or something like that, if we preach the gospel to someone who has not recognized or acknowledged their sin. They remain in its grasp. That is how I understand it.”

Jon Bloomquist, Menahga and Wolf Lake boards meeting, 2021-03-26 ▶ 00:34:53 transcript

The dog in the trap is a member who has not “recognized or acknowledged their sin.” What the sin was, in Wolf Lake's case, he does not say; no one has (row 6).

“Esa, I do not agree with your understanding about Saul. God had rejected him as a king. That is not the same issue as not forgiving him, because he was not penitent. … Those are two different issues. I think about binding and withholding forgiveness. They are not even the same thing.”

Jon Bloomquist, Menahga and Wolf Lake boards meeting, 2021-03-26 ▶ 01:01:52 transcript

Two years earlier, to the Menahga and Wolf Lake boards:

“nothing would be easier and nothing would be more pleasing, the world would even applaud that, that we say always, whenever somebody asks, we preach the gospel. But unless we … remove from the scriptures these portions that show otherwise. And they're rare cases. Then I can't in good conscience accept that kind of a teaching.”

Jon Bloomquist (addressed as 'John'; attribution from context), Menahga annual joint board meeting, 2019-04-27 ▶ 04:26:56 transcript

The same teaching from LLC pulpits:

“So God uses us as the mouthpiece. He opens our mouth to preach the gospel, and he closes our mouth when he knows the heart of that one is not seeking and searching in the correct way. And it's not a punishment, but it's for that reason that they would understand that they're still missing something.”

Rodney Nikula, Outlook, sermon, 2018-04-01 ▶ 00:30:17

“Are there times when God's Holy Spirit closes our mouth? This has happened when the person asking forgiveness is not sincere. We do not realize that, but God does. It is through their actions, through their conduct, you might say the way they bring things out, that it is very clear and God … does not give us the words to speak.”

Donald Lahti, LLC Summer Services, sermon, 2021-07-02 ▶ 00:33:16

“If somebody comes in asking for their sins forgiven, of course we want to preach the gospel to them. … But in this example that Jesus is giving us, it's too late. … They could not preach the gospel to them. It would give them false hope. We would never want to do that. We would not be helping such a one.”

Nathan Muhonen, Rockford, sermon, 2024-06-23 ▶ 00:25:43

Nathan Muhonen, Rockford, 26 Mar 2017 at [00:34:07]: “the repercussions of withholding forgiveness to someone, to a penitent one, are great.” ▶ 00:34:07

“when we hear of someone that comes from that heresy or any heresy that when they ask for forgiveness that we would ask them if they want to have the sin of heresy forgiven too. And of course that grace is always offered to the penitent.”

Dave Edwards, Prescott Valley, sermon, 2025-08-17 ▶ 00:33:10

And in practice. At the Southwest Area Meeting in March 2026, Phil Siljander asked for the gospel; the answer was a condition:

“I will say, like I said at the beginning, my faith hasn't changed. My strength comes through the gospel, and I do want to hear that gospel if I can believe. I promise to believe.”

Phil Siljander, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:56:13 transcript

“Again, I remind you, the humility that's required is to actually repent from unbelief. If you don't feel that you're in that state, then we can't. There's nothing that we can do to help you at this point. Only God himself can help you.”

Jared Huhta, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 02:00:39 transcript

“And then it's a simple thing to ask for the gospel, but it's not so simple a thing to ask for the sin of unbelief to be forgiven, to accept that sort of humility. So those are the direct questions that have not been answered.”

Jared Huhta, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 02:03:04 transcript

In 13 sermons by 12 ministers, 54 statements at 8 recorded meetings, and 5 written statements (2018–2026), LLC ministers and leaders called for repentance without naming a sin or a doctrinal error, or declined to give the particulars. All of them, with the recording at each →

No sin was ever named. Seven weeks before the 2022 vote, the LLC chairman called both congregations to repent while saying a congregation has nothing to repent of:

“Sometimes, we have been asked this question, what must the Wolf Lake congregation repent of? And my answer has been nothing. A congregation doesn't repent. Faith is personal. … It feels like without repentance and caring for matters, this current division will become some kind of a formal separation.”

Jim Frantti, LLC board meeting with Wolf Lake, 13 May 2022 (typed transcript) document (PDF)

At the annual meeting, delegates were told that those called to repent need not know what for:

“Those individuals may not understand, they might not feel or know exactly what the differences are, but know that there is a difference and all that's required is a humble heart and forgiveness of those sins. And if we have to, through what's been [referenced as the Church Law of] Christ [and] that final [step, take] action. Know that all it takes is simple repentance to be restored.”

Jared Huhta, LLC annual meeting, Monticello (LLC Summer Services), 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 01:39:01 transcript

“believing is seeing. No amount of debate, no amount of writings or Discussions will reveal it if you don't want to. Ask for gospel, repent of your condition, and God will give the understanding or you won't even have the questions. … If your family, your spouse, your friend, your son, your daughter, your parent is confused, God will clarify matters for you if you humble yourself to repent, not requiring understanding, no conditions, just take care of your matter and belief.”

Paul Waaraniemi, LLC annual meeting, Monticello (LLC Summer Services), 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 02:21:01 transcript

“I came here with a prayer in my prayer in remembrance of those in Minneapolis and Wolf Lake and those who are battling, is that you would repent, repent whatever your repentance needs to be, and God will show you. And if you don't need to understand, if you don't understand, the Bible says we see so dimly.”

Jared Juusola, LLC annual meeting, Monticello (LLC Summer Services), 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 02:50:35 transcript

In 2026 the demand was put to Phil Siljander with no sin named except unbelief itself, and the particulars were refused:

“Thank you, Phil. Phil, this is Keith [Kesti]. I think that the discussion we should have right now would center around how does each of us believe and not all the details. … And I don't know that these procedural matters are so important at this point. But rather, do we see, each of us, do we see ourselves in alignment with those who have left in heresy?”

Keith Kesti, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 00:42:19 transcript

“none of us want to go back and try to, rehash out the matters of the heresy uh the heresy happened unfortunately uh there was a wrong understanding and a wrong spirit and that was revealed in god's time and in god's time he cleansed his kingdom of that wrong understanding and so to go back and try to revisit about those matters it just it brings so much sorrow to us … that it's not something that we want to try to even discuss.”

Dave Edwards, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:12:56 transcript

“You Phil, I don't think I've ever had a conversation with you over the heresy and needing to know the nitty gritty details and you not being able to accept the heresy until you have those details is a concern of mine. And we see in the presentation when Jesus showed the wounds in his hands and wounds in his side to Thomas, and blessed are those who believe. … if we've been pretty removed from the heresy and we don't know the details and someone we trust and a brother that says, yes, this heresy happened and those individuals are no longer believing. All we can do is... If that's the case, then we can just say, amen, I believe you, brother, that you are believing. And if this is what you say is true, and so be it.”

Wyatt Kesti, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:25:33 transcript

“Those of us that are here are telling you that your faith has changed. It's no longer the faith that you shared with us from years ago as brothers have related. Your faith has changed. And the humility that's required is to repent from unbelief itself. If you don't believe that you're in unbelief and God doesn't choose to open your eyes, then there's No amount of discussion that's going to change anything.”

Jared Huhta, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:59:09 transcript

Jared Huhta, 14 Mar 2026 at [02:03:04]: “it's a simple thing to ask for the gospel, but it's not so simple a thing to ask for the sin of unbelief to be forgiven, to accept that sort of humility.” ▶ 02:03:04 transcript

At the 2026 annual meeting, before the vote on Coastal California:

“please hear what's being said today you don't need to understand it just desire to hear what the kingdom of god is saying … With love for those in coastal California that they would see that the delegates who have been asked to come here with their own lack of understanding today, that we hear what the Southwest Area has said and we understand that they've been in these discussions for some time. We trust that God has led those discussions, and that the outcome that's been brought to us today is one that we support and trust is the right direction to take.”

Tyler Hendrickson (Longview), LLC annual meeting, 3 Jul 2026 ▶ 02:04:09 transcript

In writing. The LLC's letters give no passage of Scripture and no named error. The 2022 ground was “a different spirit”; the 2026 ground was “the doctrine of the congregation,” a phrase the LLC has never defined in writing. The only content ever given for it is Jim Frantti's statement before the 2022 vote that the critics' speeches “place the word above the congregation” (row 1, “More on this point”), which is what the book and the Constitution teach.

“Many speeches by delegates expressed a loving call to repentance to restore unity. A different spirit was plainly evident in the speeches from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake delegates and guests. … After the long discussion period, where the loving call to repentance went unheeded, delegates overwhelmingly approved the motion to formally remove Wolf Lake and Minneapolis as member congregations in the Laestadian Lutheran Church.”

Jim Jurmu, Sam Roiko, Arvin Pirness (for the LLC Board), LLC letter to member congregations, 7 Jul 2022 ('AM Communication from LLC'), document document (PDF)

Jim Jurmu, Sam Roiko, Arvin Pirness (for the LLC Board), elsewhere: “we live in hope and prayer that they would yet find a place of repentance.”

“The LLC Constitution teaches that the Kingdom of God is one and indivisible and that there is one saving faith, one baptism, and one Holy Christian Church. The understanding of the doctrine of the congregation was not acceptable to those who were deceived in the 2022 schism. … the delegates affirmed that the Minneapolis Laestadian Lutheran Church and the Wolf Lake Laestadian Lutheran Church did not travel together in unity of spirit with the other LLC Member Congregations and approved a motion removing them as member congregations. … Return to mutual faith and fellowship is through individual repentance.”

Arvin Pirness (on behalf of the LLC Board of Directors), LLC Board response to the CCLLC delegate and chair, 26 Jun 2026, document document (PDF)

Arvin Pirness (on behalf of the LLC Board of Directors), elsewhere: “As a result, the decisions of the LLC regarding those matters are final and we will not be adding your proposed items to the agenda.”

“It is stated that the congregation no longer shares the unity of faith and spirit described in Section VI of the Constitution and has not complied with decisions made by the LLC as contemplated by Article II, Section 9 of the Bylaws, including, but not limited to the following: … has publicly rejected the decisions of the LLC Annual Meetings; … has sought to overturn prior decisions of the delegates regarding membership matters; … continues to conduct itself in a manner that the delegates believe is inconsistent with the unity of faith and spirit described in Section VI of the Constitution and Article II, Section 1 of the Bylaws”

Arvin Pirness (on behalf of the LLC Board of Directors and 2026 delegates), Letter of Notice to the CCLLC chairman, 22 Jul 2026, document document (PDF)

Arvin Pirness (on behalf of the LLC Board of Directors and 2026 delegates), elsewhere: “Above all, we continue to pray that God could awaken the lost and straying to a place of individual repentance.”

Removed as congregations, readmitted one at a time. The LLC removed Minneapolis and Wolf Lake by a vote on the congregations as bodies, yet says the way back is “individual repentance.” If repentance is individual, as the LLC's own chairman said in May 2022, the removal of whole congregations had no individual sin behind it, and no person has ever been told what to repent of.

In 27 sermons by 18 ministers, and 13 statements at 7 recorded meetings (2018–2026), LLC ministers and leaders treated reading, quoting or asking to be shown Scripture as a mark of the wrong spirit. All of them, with the recording at each →

At the 2022 annual meeting, a delegate explained how he decided between the two sides:

“I've heard the two sides here now. My spirit can tell a difference. One side is [hopeful. It] is begging for grace. The other side is quoting the Bible and wanting to be a part of a group.”

Timo Hotari (Toronto delegate), LLC annual meeting, 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 01:18:22 transcript

“The words that are spoken we cannot disagree with. They have quoted scripture, but so did the devil quote scripture.”

Don Lahti, LLC Board Members' Workshop, Monticello, 2019-04-13 ▶ 01:47:33 transcript

“That they would place the highest authority on the written word. But how can man even understand the written word if he doesn't have the keys of the kingdom of heaven? To open that word. And reference to demands of some in our time who say, show me in the Bible where I am wrong. That's not a heart of faith.”

Steven Kallinen, Monticello, sermon, 2020-11-23 ▶ 00:23:43

“I also had a coworker who could quote scriptures from any place in the Bible you asked him to. … But he's not believing, either. Quoting the scriptures – he quoted much of it to me, when we spoke of the Bible. But knowing scriptures and quoting scriptures didn't bring him to God's Kingdom. He hadn't been able to humble his heart.”

Lauri Nevala, Phoenix congregational meeting about minister Brett Rintamaki, 2022-01-08 ▶ 03:46:00 transcript

In 2026, after conceding nothing was wrong with Phil Siljander's answers:

“I think many here have found that the responses that you've given are, there's nothing, we could say there's nothing wrong with your responses. … I think it was even in the presentation that even the devil quoted scriptures to Jesus to try to get him to do things that were contrary to God's will. And I think that's where we are left here at this point, where we wonder that … to the good words that you speak, where do they come from?”

Lauri Nevala (Phoenix), Southwest Area Meeting, 14 Mar 2026 ▶ 01:42:09 transcript (he introduces himself at 1:40:05; the machine transcript hears the name as “Logan Neville”)

“we start to elevate ourselves, we start to latch onto and trust our own understanding above that of the congregation. ... So begins the fall away from grace and the dependence upon knowledge of scripture, carnal wisdom.”

Arvin Pirness, Menahga, sermon, 2025-05-04 ▶ 00:17:45

“And I've thought even recently it seems that some of those who have departed in this last heresy have been even like these Pharisees and have demanded to see, to show me ... Show me in Scripture. ... Give me evidence. ... And such is the heart of a Pharisee.”

Kevin Ruonavaara, Longview, sermon, 2026-06-07 ▶ 00:27:24

The argument runs backwards. The LLC says a member who states what the Bible says is relying on “his own understanding” as if he stood outside the congregation, while the congregation may say what it likes without referring to the Bible at all. The book puts it the other way: the congregation is “the servant of the revelation” (p. 55), and whoever asks to be shown an error from Scripture is asking for exactly the test the book requires.

Point 15 follows the same charge into the meetings of 2018–2022, where prepared statements, quotations and Scripture readings were faulted. Point 15 →

In 34 sermons by 21 ministers, and 53 statements at 20 recorded meetings (2018–2026), LLC ministers and leaders gave “a different spirit,” something they could not put a finger on, or what “the Spirit revealed” as the ground, with no doctrinal error named. All of them, with the recording at each →

Closing the debate over the motion to expel Coastal California, after three motions to follow Scripture, the Constitution and the law received no second:

“We have wanted to allow you to speak your concerns, make your motions. I want to say this, that when your motions didn't receive a second, [it doesn't] mean that everything you said and quoted was not believed and understood. Many scripture portions, many portions of Luther's writings, these were not the reason why [there] weren't seconds to those motions but I think as has been alluded to here there's a long history of these discussions and differences and we feel that these things have resulted in heresy. We believe that the Holy Spirit has revealed this to the living congregation of God. When there's differences of spirit, and different interpretations as we've heard even of God's word and of where the Holy Spirit dwells. When those divide congregations, then what else can we do but have majorities delegates make these difficult decisions.”

Ray Waaraniemi, meeting chairman, LLC annual meeting, 3 Jul 2026 ▶ 02:10:21 transcript

“We couldn't put a finger on it.” The admission that no doctrinal error could be named runs from the LLC board workshop of April 2019 through sermons preached after the removals:

“And God reveals through his children. Sometimes it's been said that, have you spoken individually with this minister? How do you know that something's wrong? The Spirit reveals. … And even sometimes when you can't put a finger on it, this is not unusual amongst God's children. You can't put a finger on it, but something doesn't feel right. … We couldn't explain from Scripture why, but it doesn't answer the Spirit. And later, sometimes God reveals it more clearly.”

Keith Waaraniemi, LLC Board Members' Workshop, Monticello (evening), 2019-04-13 ▶ 02:36:48 transcript

Keith Waaraniemi, 13 Apr 2019 at [02:37:53]: “there has been discussion that there's been no reasons given, for example, for why” ▶ 02:37:53 transcript

“We all agree that two spirits have been present in the recent discussions we have had. Through the hours of discussion, we haven't been able to pinpoint the specific issue or issues, so we're asking the congregation for help and guidance.”

Unidentified speaker, Colorado (Roaring Fork Valley) congregation meeting, 2019-08-25 ▶ 00:23:39 transcript

“And dear friends there in Minneapolis, that I know how much we would wish to bless you, for you to repent, put that battle away, and put those sins away. We don't know what those sins are, … But one thing we can say is that it is unbelief when you have not believed what the Spirit has spoken in the congregation. If you have not believed that message, you need to put that unbelief away.”

Unidentified speaker, LLC board member workshop (part 2), 2022-04-30 ▶ 01:52:31 transcript

“The same Gospels preach there, my other parents' faith. The same Word of God is spoken from, from the pulpit. … Many things are the same, the same doctrine in many ways. But there's a different spirit. There's only one holy spirit. … God's spirit doesn't divide. But neither does it coexist with a spirit that's not of itself.”

Marvin Wittenberg, LLC meeting with Minneapolis, 2022-05-14 ▶ 02:16:18 transcript

Marvin Wittenberg, 14 May 2022 at [02:17:13]: “"Because we don't feel the same exact spirit, dear brothers and sisters, brothers and sisters, it's a sin if we don't go and serve." (the last clause is unclear in the recording)” ▶ 02:17:13 transcript

“You know, and oftentimes, we couldn't put a finger on what was different. … But it was the Spirit that was different. … Maybe it wasn't something that was so black and white. … Maybe it wasn't a point of doctrine that we could understand or put a finger on. … But it was a different spirit.”

David Anderson, Cokato (Spring Services), sermon, 2023-05-07 ▶ 00:28:23

“We're not able to even always discern what it was that made it difficult to hear. … We have even marveled over the last few years leading up to this time of the separation that there, when someone would speak with a different spirit, that sometimes the words could be correct … but they were coming from a different place.”

Allen Pirness, Rockford, sermon, 2023-08-08 ▶ 00:21:23

“And we hear about how when there's a foreign voice, our spirit's so quick to identify that. … We don't necessarily, we can't put our finger on it, we can't explain. There's no sort of ability, yeah, to explain what's different or that sort of thing, but the Spirit knows. And it's because the voice is different.”

Keith Kariniemi, Rockford, sermon, 2025-06-22 ▶ 00:11:36

“that they didn't feel that there was the same spirit, the same understanding, … the heresy happened unfortunately uh there was a wrong understanding and a wrong spirit and that was revealed in god's time and in god's time he cleansed his kingdom of that wrong understanding and so to go back and try to revisit about those matters it just it brings so much sorrow to us … do you feel that there was a heresy? And if not, um, why, uh, that's, that's what God's spirit has revealed.”

Dave Edwards, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:12:27 transcript

Dave Edwards, 14 Mar 2026 at [01:12:56]: “We're not looking for any long explanations” ▶ 01:12:56 transcript

Across every LLC meeting statement in the record, one speaker named a doctrinal item for the removed side: Jim Frantti's “place the word above the congregation” (row 1, “More on this point”). Every other ground given is a spirit, a feeling, or a revelation.

In 6 sermons by 5 ministers, 30 statements at 6 recorded meetings, and 2 documents (2019–2026), LLC ministers and leaders described binding as personal and individual, or removed ministers and congregations without naming an error. All of them, with the recording at each →

The LLC's own ministers teach that binding is the congregation's act toward an individual, after the steps of Matthew 18:

“this individual claims to be a child of God, but yet lives otherwise, that we can't continue to hold such a one as a child of God. … we can easily, in our own impatience, in our own understanding, begin to take matters into our own hands and begin to, as if, bind as an individual. … It is the church that binds. It is the congregation. It is not any one of us as an individual. It's a very serious and sobering step that God's children would take in the light of the Holy Spirit. And we want to be very careful.”

Keith Waaraniemi, Rockford LLC, sermon on Matt. 18:15-18, 2021-08-31 ▶ 00:35:17

Keith Waaraniemi, 31 Aug 2021 at [00:37:15]: “to be quick to forgive but slow to bind” ▶ 00:37:15

What was done in 2022 was a vote on two congregations as bodies, on a motion that was not on the agenda, with no individual named and no charge in writing:

“We didn't, of course, on the annual meeting agenda put this topic or any kind of action item, but it's a meeting of the delegates, and the bylaws authorize the delegates to take whatever actions … And of course they have the freedom to make motions and vote on motions and could freely make a decision today even regarding these matters under discussion. I'm not encouraging or discouraging that, but simply saying that there is freedom for the delegates to address these matters.”

Jim Frantti, LLC annual meeting, new business, 2022-07-02 ▶ 02:03:57 transcript

“I guess I would at this time make the motion that we formally recognize … Wolf Lake and Minneapolis do not travel together with North American Zion. I'm not super familiar with the bylaws and what exactly that process would be, but that we formally remove the Wolf Lake and Minneapolis congregations. So that concludes my motion.”

Mitch Loukusa, LLC annual meeting, 2022-07-02 ▶ 02:28:25 transcript

A Wolf Lake delegate asked, just before the vote, that the congregations first be judged by Scripture:

“So to actually go through and do this all and approve it is seriously going to tear people apart, tear believers apart, and families. … Seriously, consider the effects of voting that through with really no reason. So I make a motion before excommunicating Wolf Lake and Minneapolis that they be judged with the Holy Word of God before committing that action.”

Mitchell Johnson (Wolf Lake), LLC annual meeting, 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 02:39:44 transcript

The chair answered, “I believe we can only have one motion on the floor at a time” [02:40:12]. The motion was never put, and the removal vote went ahead. The LLC's letter to the congregations five days later gave the ground:

“Many speeches by delegates expressed a loving call to repentance to restore unity. A different spirit was plainly evident in the speeches from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake delegates and guests. … After the long discussion period, where the loving call to repentance went unheeded, delegates overwhelmingly approved the motion to formally remove Wolf Lake and Minneapolis as member congregations in the Laestadian Lutheran Church.”

Jim Jurmu, Sam Roiko, Arvin Pirness (for the LLC Board), LLC letter to member congregations, 7 Jul 2022 ('AM Communication from LLC'), document document (PDF)

Jim Jurmu, Sam Roiko, Arvin Pirness (for the LLC Board), elsewhere: “we live in hope and prayer that they would yet find a place of repentance.”

Three years later a sermon applied the third step of the Church Law to the vote itself:

“It is just like when God's kingdom decided to officially remove … the Minneapolis and the Wolf Lake congregations from the association. … It did not remove anyone's faith. … The faith was gone already. … The spirit of God had left. … and a different spirit had entered in. … We cannot take away the faith of anyone, but we can acknowledge, for instance, after the third … step of the church law that that one is no longer believing”

Neil Waaraniemi, Menahga LLC, sermon on Matt. 18:15-22, 2025-08-10 ▶ 00:44:36

Neil Waaraniemi, 10 Aug 2025 at [00:51:10]: “The congregation binds, but one can be loosed when they hear the gospel from a brother or sister in faith.” ▶ 00:51:10

The litmus test. Binding in the book rests on “actual sins, sins contrary to God's Word.” In the record, the test applied to individuals was whether they agreed with the decision, or whether their hearts “said amen” to it:

“In these battles the congregation here in Phoenix has taken some action in regards to some of these events in Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. … We have sent a letter. We have decided that we will not send speakers [there]. Here is a question: are you in unity with the congregation on these matters? Or do you feel differently?”

Keith Hillukka, Phoenix congregation meeting about Brett Rintamaki, 2022-01-08 ▶ 02:19:57 transcript

“I asked him if he is with us or with those [people] in Minneapolis. He asked, what is going on up in Minneapolis? I didn't know what to say. I think that everyone here knows what is going on in Minneapolis. I was offended by him not being open about these matters.”

Mark Young, Phoenix congregation meeting about Brett Rintamaki, 2022-01-08 ▶ 01:37:10 transcript

“if we've been pretty removed from the heresy and we don't know the details and someone we trust and a brother that says, yes, this heresy happened and those individuals are no longer believing. All we can do is... If that's the case, then we can just say, amen, I believe you, brother, that you are believing.”

Wyatt Kesti, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:26:32 transcript

Wyatt Kesti, 14 Mar 2026 at [01:25:33]: “you not being able to accept the heresy until you have those details is a concern of mine” ▶ 01:25:33 transcript

“You heard them and you failed to second the motions that were brought forward because they didn't answer. … It's a really interesting thing how those who have found a different way are so offended by such a statement that it doesn't answer. They want to yet see a proof that isn't there.”

Arvin Pirness, LLC Annual Meeting, 3 July 2026 (new business: Coastal California) ▶ 00:40:18 transcript

Arvin Pirness, 3 Jul 2026 at [00:41:16]: “the way to God's kingdom and the return to prodigal ones is through individual repentance” ▶ 00:41:16 transcript

In 1 sermon by 1 minister, 31 statements at 8 recorded meetings, and 9 documents (2018–2022), LLC ministers and leaders described binding as personal and individual, or removed ministers and congregations without naming an error. All of them, with the recording at each →

At the 2018 Minnesota-wide meeting, a speaker urged congregation boards to act on ministers:

“I don't know either that the demand has been recently to talk about this, removing a servant and showing where there is care from the doctrine. I don't believe that there is evidence of clear wrong doctrine. For me it's enough to know that there is unrest around the service of one of the ministers.”

Minnesota-wide meeting, 14 Jun 2018, speaker not confirmed; “care from the doctrine” may be a mistranscription of “error from the doctrine” ▶ 02:25:27 transcript

The Rockford board chairman on Craig Kumpula, 2019:

“Last year it was concerned that Craig was serving at a confirmation camp. Parents were concerned. There was questions from sister congregations where he has been scheduled. … I can't sit here and say that it's only because we're discussing him. I would say that we're discussing him because of those concerns. I specifically, as I said, can't say that there is exact same … So this is maybe a long-winded way of saying that my concern with Craig, with [his wife], is, I can't specifically say it is doctrinal, but I can say that it troubles me how they will defend and join with those … That's my concern.”

Jeremy Glynn (Rockford LLC board chairman), Rockford congregation meeting on Craig Kumpula, 2019-05-19 ▶ 03:24:30 transcript

Jeremy Glynn (Rockford LLC board chairman), 19 May 2019 at [03:30:36]: “Brothers and sisters, this whole matter has weighed on me heavily. I feared being dried up in this matter. I feared being overly watchful.” ▶ 03:30:36 transcript

Darwin Lake. The LLC removed his July 2015 sermon from the archive within days. Its chairman later explained:

“I think what started a series of meetings was there was a sermon kept by our brother Darwin in Outlook. It raised some concern among believers. It seemed like it caused some divisions. Some spoke very favorably of it and some felt very troubled by it. … The LLC board and staff had discussed it and thought that if it is causing division, maybe it is best that we not keep it on the archives where it is aired for all of the public and the world to hear. … Not because we had any questions or doubts about how he believes or anything like that. Simply, we didn't feel that it was good for us to keep it there if it was causing concern.”

Jim Frantti, LLC board meeting with the Wolf Lake congregation, 2019-12-07 ▶ 00:22:47 transcript

Phil Alajoki. In September 2018 the Detroit board moved to cancel his visit. Briar Siljander's letter to the congregation at the time, and the LLC chairman's denial four months later:

“No one on the board described any concern about how Phil believes or what he preaches. No one else on the board has called Phil. No one has spoken with him. No one knows the reasons that the Cokato board, through one of its members, told Phil he was not invited to speak there. Yet, now we are prepared to tell him that he is not welcome to come to Detroit to preach God's Word because we are told there is a "cloud" over him.”

Briar Siljander, Letter to the Detroit congregation, document, 2018-09-30 document (PDF)

Briar Siljander, elsewhere: “If it is a doctrinal difference between Phil and the Cokato board or certain members of that board, those doctrinal differences should be articulated and then discussed.”

“I received an email that had been sent not to me but to somebody else and then I received a copy of it that I had given advice to the Detroit congregation and board that they should not call our brother Phil Alajoki to serve there. I haven't met with the Detroit congregation or board in years and I've never given them that advice. … And I've never told any congregation board who to call or who not to call.”

Jim Frantti (self-introduced at [00:45:32]), Menahga spiritual joint board meeting, 2019-01-12 ▶ 00:58:52 transcript

“I'll touch upon the question that came up about Brainerd not calling Darwin there. For many months, at least three or four months before he was scheduled to come, questions came up from the congregation … They have heard comments from other congregations where the spirit evidently did not answer. We struggled with it on the board. I'm not on the board, but I attend the board meetings. And each time, each meeting we said, we just don't have a good reason. … Not to call him.”

Don Lahti (Brainerd), Menahga spiritual joint board meeting, 2019-01-12 ▶ 01:07:15 transcript

Brett Rintamaki. The Phoenix board took him off the schedule before any meeting. The stated issue was not his preaching but whether he agreed that there were “two spirits” and with the decision not to send speakers to Minneapolis and Wolf Lake:

“Over the past couple of years, congregation members have reached out to the board voicing concerns surrounding our preacher brother Brett. … The board has felt a change with Brett which is a lack of freedom with board members and [the lack of] attending board meetings. … At one of our board meetings in unity we decided that we would not schedule Brett to serve until we could meet as a congregation.”

Keith Hillukka, Phoenix congregation meeting about Brett Rintamaki, 2022-01-08 ▶ 00:21:30 transcript

“And our dear sister Cheryl [Simonson] and others who were not directly involved spoke. We said amen. I thought for sure that now Brett will see, he will step down and take care of his [matters], whatever they may be. But again, he resisted any attempts for help.”

Eric Mattila, Phoenix annual meeting (participant-prepared transcript; no audio), document, 2022-01 typed transcript (PDF)

“When Mark came to speak to me, he said he did not have concerns with my sermons. … He then asked if I was in the other group? And my answer was, I wasn't aware that there was a heresy. I'm aware that there are many misunderstandings going on right now. … I guess for me personally, there are two spirits, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of the devil. I think it is a serious matter. I'm not ignoring the fact that there are battles in God's kingdom. I have not been a part of the meetings or events that took place there in Minnesota. … I do not want to base my actions on secondhand information, hearsay and rumors.”

Brett Rintamaki, Phoenix congregation meeting about Brett Rintamaki, 2022-01-08 ▶ 04:31:04 transcript

Brett Rintamaki, 8 Jan 2022 at [04:35:13]: “My understanding was at the end of October, based off of this text message that there would be a congregational discussion on the Church Law of Christ. The message that I received in December that it was taken off the schedule came as a surprise to me.” ▶ 04:35:13 transcript

In 10 sermons by 9 ministers, and 36 statements at 7 recorded meetings (2018–2026), LLC ministers and leaders declared a person or a congregation to be without faith, with no ground stated beyond their own sense of it. All of them, with the recording at each →

A sermon on Matthew 18, explaining the 2022 removals:

“Faith already left that heart before this action took place. It is just like when God's kingdom decided to officially remove the Minneapolis and the Wolf Lake congregations from the association. It did not remove anyone's faith. The faith was gone already. The spirit of God had left. and a different spirit had entered in.”

Neil Waaraniemi, sermon, Menahga, 10 Aug 2025 ▶ 00:44:26

“I don't know you, Phil.” At the Southwest Area Meeting in March 2026, speakers who said they had never spoken with Phil Siljander told him he was not believing. The only test stated was whether their hearts said amen:

“I don't know you, Phil, but when you said how you believe it, my heart didn't say amen, because many in this world believe that way, or proclaim to believe that way, that Christ is their Savior, and it's in the Bible.”

Scott (Black Hills; surname not given), Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 00:55:57 transcript

Scott (Black Hills; surname not given), 14 Mar 2026 at [00:56:27]: “And I didn't get the feeling that you believe that because you didn't answer it. Maybe you do, and you can't speak to that. But it is a doubt that I had” ▶ 00:56:27 transcript

“I would say, Phil, I don't know you personally and haven't visited with you, but as I've sat here today, I've heard many, many loving calls for you to repent and return to God's kingdom through the spirit of this meeting and your responses. I don't feel that you've … On that, you've evaded the direct questions that have been asked. Like Shannon just said, through the Spirit, it reveals that I don't believe the same as you do.”

Jeremy Keranen (Colorado), Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 01:52:17 transcript

“I can tell you that for myself, you and I do not believe the same. I feel that you are in unbelief. And that's all we can do is tell you directly that that's the case.”

Jared Huhta, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 02:02:04 transcript

Jared Huhta, 14 Mar 2026 at [02:02:34]: “some of this discussion can seem a little pointless because it's clear that we don't believe the same” ▶ 02:02:34 transcript

“You said that, well, we've heard all these things from other people, but you haven't personally had these discussions. Well, that's because you haven't been around. We're having these discussions with you right now.”

Jared Huhta, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 02:01:35 transcript

“A believer in what exactly?” At the 2026 annual meeting Briar Siljander was told the same, by speakers who had not met him, and asked what he was said not to believe. No one answered; the next speakers restated the verdict and said there was no need to prove it:

“He was invited to attend our last Southwest Area Board meeting, and he did attend remotely. And his testimony was not that of a believer. … He showed us clearly that he was not a believer. And I believe Briar has done us the same favor today. I would do him the favor, if he's still here, to let him know that he is not a believer. He is not traveling with us. I think his testimony, what he read, doesn't answer to any of our spirits, those of us that are believing.”

Jared Huhta, LLC Annual Meeting, 3 July 2026 (new business: Coastal California) ▶ 00:44:43 transcript

Jared Huhta, 3 Jul 2026 at [00:46:23]: “to let you know, Briar, that you are not a believer, that if you want to repent from unbelief, the opportunity is there” ▶ 00:46:23 transcript

“I think I also heard that I'm not a believer. And I guess I would like to understand a believer in what exactly? I have professed that I believe according to the constitution of this organization. And it's easy to fling around and say, well, my spirit didn't answer. Or maybe my tone was too hard. Or maybe too insistent.”

Briar Siljander, LLC Annual Meeting, 3 July 2026 (new business: Coastal California) ▶ 00:55:51 transcript

Briar Siljander, 3 Jul 2026 at [00:57:56]: “there's an open question here, repent of what? ... Do you agree that ... The vote of the delegates at that meeting was correct and the Holy Spirit. And if you don't, you are an unbeliever.” ▶ 00:57:56 transcript

“I don't know Briar. I don't know where he lives. I don't know if he represents … I know he's a lawyer, I've heard. Is he representing Minneapolis? Is he representing Wolf Lake? Is he even representing Coastal California? I don't know his membership status anywhere. … those members though had strayed they were that's just a formality whether they belong to the LLC but as Briar said the LLC [isn't] God's kingdom but they had left God's kingdom”

Paul Waaraniemi (Pelkie delegate), LLC Annual Meeting, 3 July 2026 (new business: Coastal California) ▶ 01:02:06 transcript

“I don't think we should approach this from a spiritual matter. If he's aligned with the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations, … And he perceives some sort of division remaining in God's kingdom. And I would say that's a good sign that you're not part of it. Because I'm not involved in any of these discussions. … it's very telling that Briar is not in the right place and we don't have to try to argue and go back and forth with him and try to prove that because I think that's what he wants.”

Aaron Huhta, LLC Annual Meeting, 3 July 2026 (new business: Coastal California) ▶ 01:09:19 transcript

“It is not enough that we believe that Jesus once lived, died, even resurrected from death and rose into heaven. That's not enough. That's a fact. But even the devil does not deny that fact. The Bible says that he believes and trembles. What we believe, we have to believe that there is the kingdom of God lowered into this earth. And it is a group of people. Group of lacking, sinful people.”

Jouko Haapsaari, Monticello, sermon, 2023-03-11 ▶ 00:42:02

In 47 sermons by 33 ministers, and 24 statements at 9 recorded meetings (2017–2026), LLC ministers and leaders criticized a focus on Christ and the written Word, said believing in Christ is not enough, or placed the Holy Spirit only in this organization. All of them, with the recording at each →

Keith Waaraniemi, answering whether he had said one can speak too much about Christ, named his concern about Wolf Lake sermons:

“I've been asked a few times, have I said that you can speak too much about Christ? I do not remember my exact words. … some of the speeches of the Wolf Lake brother’s sermons have raised this question in my mind. There tends to be a focus on Christ and the written Word but an avoidance of speaking of the Holy Spirit, the congregation and the endeavor. The Holy Spirit is the teacher in the congregation. The Holy Spirit is the key to understanding Scripture. That has been a concern that I have had.”

Keith Waaraniemi, LLC board meeting with Wolf Lake, 7 Dec 2019 ▶ 03:28:08 transcript

“We can find lots of people in this community or in these surroundings communities that speak very warmly of Christ and of God's Word. But if you don't have the congregation, you don't have the Word. If you don't have the Word, you don't have the congregation.”

Keith Waaraniemi, LLC board meeting with the Wolf Lake congregation, 2019-12-07 ▶ 03:29:59 transcript

Keith Waaraniemi, 7 Dec 2019 at [03:30:23]: “So, the connection to the congregation is so important. And the Spirit of God works in the congregation of God.” ▶ 03:30:23 transcript

The same formula had been used at the LLC board workshop eight months earlier, and the Phoenix pastor answered it the same day:

“With regard to the sermons that have caused concern, not only with the Wolf Lake brothers, but with others, it seems that there's been a focus on Christ and the written … of the Holy Spirit, the congregation, and the endeavor. They're all important. Christ, salvation through Christ, the grace of Christ is most important. Justification by faith. We are saved by grace through faith. Those are the most important things. … we heard so preciously of the Holy Spirit and the work of the Holy Spirit. If that is missing, there is much missing.”

Unidentified speaker, LLC Board Members' Workshop, Monticello (evening), 2019-04-13 ▶ 02:40:14 transcript

“We can never preach too much about Christ. But also at the same time in living Christianity, sermons have included the address where we can find Christ, the body of Christ, God's holy congregation. We can never separate one from another. Personally, I feel about this congregation that around me some have lost the view of this beauty or value of the congregation.”

Harri Vähäjylkkä, LLC board meeting with the Wolf Lake congregation, 2019-12-07 ▶ 02:52:12 transcript

Harri Vähäjylkkä, 7 Dec 2019 at [02:51:52]: “Christ is the center of the sermons, of course.” ▶ 02:51:52 transcript

“Not enough.” From LLC pulpits, believing that Christ died for our sins is not enough; one must also believe that this group is the kingdom, where the Holy Spirit alone is found:

“And the world also says that I believe and therefore I will be saved. I'm saved. But isn't it important that we know what we believe? It's not enough to believe that God created all things. It's not enough to believe that Jesus was born into this world. He suffered and died and rose again. One must have the Holy Spirit. One must be a member of that body of Christ. Because there is only one body, one spirit, one God, one faith, one baptism, one holy mutual congregation here upon this earth. There is not many.”

Nathan Muhonen, Williston, sermon, 2024-03-31 ▶ 00:22:01

Nathan Muhonen, 31 Mar 2024 at [00:21:30]: “It's only by faith. Be not faithless, but believing. That's all that's required, dear brothers and sisters, is that we believe.” ▶ 00:21:30

“How is that spirit born in us? By and through believing our sins forgiven. But many in this world believe that Jesus died for their sins. And they are zealous and they will post whatever they want on these social medias how righteous they are.”

Randall Haapala, Monticello, sermon, 2020-01-19 ▶ 00:27:51

“There are those that may even speak the same message in those non-living churches of this world, but the power is not in those words that they speak, for the Holy Spirit is only within one kingdom here on this earth. It doesn't only mean of just Phoenix congregation, but of whole God's kingdom, which spans the continents of this world”

Swen Sorvala, Phoenix, sermon, 2021-05-16 ▶ 00:17:40

“So we know, understand, and believe that God's Holy Spirit is only found in one place, and that's here in God's kingdom.”

Keith Kariniemi, Cokato, sermon, 2026-10-07 ▶ 00:04:52

Keith Kariniemi, 7 Oct 2026 at [00:15:53]: “And the Holy Spirit is only found here.” ▶ 00:15:53

Applied to a person. At the Southwest Area Meeting, Phil Siljander confessed his faith in Christ. The answers:

“So are you asking how I believe? My faith has not changed. I believe the same way. through faith in Jesus Christ that I have that hope of heaven. And that has not changed.”

Phil Siljander, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 00:33:19 transcript

Phil Siljander, 14 Mar 2026 at [01:45:04]: “But, you know, my faith is in Jesus Christ and that through him I could reach, I could reach heaven.” ▶ 01:45:04 transcript

“[I heard your] question of your faith by this way that you said that you believe like you have believed before that you have that hope of heaven. Hope of heaven is a thing that I would say that most people on this earth have. They hope that they can [get] to heaven it doesn't really confess your faith”

Mikko Pasanen, Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 00:50:27 transcript

Mikko Pasanen, 14 Mar 2026 at [00:55:00]: “All of us will rejoice if you can be, come back, if you can come back to this kingdom.” ▶ 00:55:00 transcript

“I don't know you, Phil, but when you said how you believe it, my heart didn't say amen, because many in this world believe that way, or proclaim to believe that way, that Christ is their Savior, and it's in the Bible. But There was a question asked, is that do you believe that this is God's kingdom here, the one saving grace, the one kingdom? And I didn't get the feeling that you believe that because you didn't answer it.”

Scott (Black Hills; surname not given), Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 00:55:57 transcript

“There is one single kingdom on this earth, and it is small, and it's hard for humans to accept that, but you must believe that to be saved, just the way I believe.”

Scott (Black Hills; surname not given), Southwest Area Meeting, Phoenix, 2026-03-14 ▶ 00:57:56 transcript

Scott (Black Hills; surname not given), 14 Mar 2026 at [00:58:55]: “God's kingdom isn't a brick and mortar. It's not a geographic. It's a believer, wherever they are, believing.” ▶ 00:58:55 transcript

Compare the book: “The righteousness that a Christian owns by faith is entirely Christ's righteousness” (p. 99), and faith “contains only one thing: Christ” (p. 97). The LLC speakers made belonging to the group the content of faith. You can never speak too much about Christ.

In 65 sermons by 40 ministers, and 13 statements at 6 recorded meetings (2015–2026), ministers spoke of the robe of righteousness as stained, removed, or unstainable. All of them, with the recording at each →

What Wolf Lake taught, and was told was wrong doctrine:

“Because God only sees a perfect white robe on his believers, the children that believe. There aren't spots and speckles of sin or stains on the robe when we believe. The blood of Jesus has washed it away.”

Darwin Lake, Phoenix, sermon, 2016-03-27 ▶ 00:53:08

“We believe that the Robe of Righteousness is the righteousness of Christ, perfect without blemish, gifted to us by faith when we believe. It is not stained by our sins and failures, but covers them. By faith, being owners of this garment of salvation, we are righteous before God without sin. ... Some have said we as believers stain this robe of righteousness, others suggest that we also wear another robe that we stain and clean. We believe neither is correct.”

Wolf Lake congregation (board and speakers), Wolf Lake, document, 2018-11-20 document (PDF)

What LLC ministers preached. Before the dispute the LLC's own wording was that the robe “becomes stained”; from 2018 the stronger form was that it is removed:

“We have that white robe of the Lord Jesus Christ's righteousness. That perfect robe of righteousness. But when we wear that robe, because of our sinfulness, not because of Christ, but because of us, that robe that we wear becomes stained. Sometimes there has been this kind of understanding that once a person has put on that white robe, they no longer have to worry about anything. That that white robe can't become stained. But we know... that because of our sinfulness, the white robe becomes stained.”

Keith Waaraniemi, Monticello, sermon, 2015-02-06 ▶ 00:33:13

“But there is a warning in God's Word that we can lose this precious faith. When we lose this precious faith, we lose the robe of righteousness. Let us not err to think that once I have this robe, it will always be there for me. Because sin separates man from God. God will not continue to robe one with the robe of righteousness if he or she lives in sin.”

Neil Waaraniemi, Menahga, sermon, 2018-05-06 ▶ 00:48:36

Neil Waaraniemi, Rockford, 20 Sep 2020 at [00:41:59]: “There has never been a question that the robe that Jesus has given would be defiled.” ▶ 00:41:59

“For we know that stains do come upon our robe. We know that we sin each and every day. We are imperfect human beings. We fall into sin. And if we do not continually put away those sins, eventually that robe which we own will become so stained it will no longer be an acceptable wedding garment.”

David Anderson, Alaska, sermon, 2019-08-04 ▶ 00:26:29

Treated as the heresy:

“Over a hundred years ago now, there was this understanding that when you heard that Gospel once, that you did not need to hear it again. That all you needed to do was believe. That once you were given that robe of righteousness, it was so pure and so holy that it could never become stained or defiled. Those people that had this understanding are no longer in God's kingdom. But they all departed in heresy.”

Eric Mattila, Alaska, sermon, 2019-06-30 ▶ 00:43:47

Eric Mattila, Menahga, 2 Nov 2024 at [00:07:40]: “they cannot take that robe of righteousness with them, that it will be lost” ▶ 00:07:40

“But then Don Lahti brought up that there is a group of people that believe that the robe of righteousness cannot be stained. They are in a wrong doctrine. You could have corrected him. He was wrong.”

Bruce Johnson, Wolf Lake, 2019-12-07 ▶ 05:04:48 transcript

“In the Finnish Bible, it says, blessed are they that wash their robes. That wash their robes. There were those who said that these robes ... These garments can never be defiled. And Jesus here very clearly says, Blessed are they that wash their robes”

George Koivukangas, Cokato, sermon, 2026-08-09 ▶ 00:24:23

George Koivukangas, Cokato, 30 Jun 2019 at [00:25:53]: “The righteousness of Christ is so perfect, we can't do anything. We can't add, we can't take.” ▶ 00:25:53

The walk-back, and back again. From the April 2018 ministers' camp the LLC's stated line became that Christ's robe cannot be blemished and that sin stains the conscience, which is the book's position and Wolf Lake's. Neil Waaraniemi moved from “removed” (2018, 2020) to “never been a question that the robe … would be defiled” (September 2020), then back to “can be removed from us because of sin” in 2025:

“First of all, I believe that Christ's righteousness is perfect. It cannot ever be blemished or diminished by our sins. His work was perfect and he finished it all for us. ... But sin stains my conscience. And the scriptures give examples of caring for sin. One is the washing of robes, one is the washing of feet ... did that mean their sins tarnished the righteousness of Christ and all that? No, of course it doesn't mean that.”

Jim Frantti, LLC ministers' camp, 2018-04-14 ▶ 00:23:27 transcript

“There's been a lot of discussion concerning garments the robe of righteousness, and so on. But here we see the words of Jesus that there were a few that have not defiled their garments, which would tell us that some, because of sin and unbelief, became defiled. You know, the important thing is not the terminology ... There has never been a question that the robe that Jesus has given would be defiled. But because of sin and unbelief, we can become defiled and lose this most precious gift of living faith.”

Neil Waaraniemi, Rockford, sermon, 2020-09-20 ▶ 00:40:26

Neil Waaraniemi, Menahga, 5 Aug 2020 at [00:23:27]: “That robe of righteousness will be removed from one who does not live according to God's Word” ▶ 00:23:27

“That robe of righteousness is the robe that Jesus has prepared for us. There was controversy over this robe of righteousness in the most recent heresy. And it seemed that some of them did not understand that this robe of righteousness can be removed from us because of sin and disobedience.”

Neil Waaraniemi, Prescott Valley, sermon, 2025-12-06 ▶ 00:24:38

Neil Waaraniemi, Prescott Valley, 5 Mar 2023 at [00:36:17]: “the robe of righteousness. And it cannot be defiled.” ▶ 00:36:17

The book's “the congregation cannot err.” The book quotes Luther: “It is impossible that the congregation can err in even the smallest point of doctrine” (p. 156, citing Bondage of the Will), and adds on its own authority that “a Christian cannot believe differently than what the holy, mutual congregation teaches” (p. 159). The book grounds the first statement in the Word: the congregation is infallible “because it adheres to the Word of God. … The Bible, the written Word of God, is the authority in the congregation” (p. 155). The sentence is Luther's (Bondage of the Will, 1525, LW 33:85: “it is impossible for the Church to err, even in the smallest article”), but the book stops one sentence short. Luther continues: “But here is the task, here is the toil, to determine whether those whom you call the Church are the Church,” and concludes (LW 33:89), “The Church is hidden, the saints are unknown.” The Church that cannot err is, in Luther, the hidden remnant preserved under erring kings, councils and popes, never the body that bears the name.

Luther himself, in The Papacy at Rome (1520), a work the book lists in its bibliography:

“The essence, life and nature of the Church is not a bodily assembly, but an assembly of hearts in one faith … And this unity is of itself sufficient to make a Church, and without it no unity, be it of place, of time, of person, of work, or of whatever else, makes a Church.”

Martin Luther, The Papacy at Rome (1520), Works of Martin Luther, Philadelphia (Holman) ed., vol. 1, p. 349; LW 39:65

“The external marks, whereby one can perceive where this Church is on earth, are baptism, the Sacrament, and the Gospel; and not Rome, or this place, or that.”

Martin Luther, The Papacy at Rome (1520), Holman ed., vol. 1, p. 361; LW 39:75

“Just as being in the Roman unity does not make one a Christian, so being outside of that unity does not make one a heretic or unchristian. … to be in this place or that, does not make a heretic: but to be without true faith makes a man a heretic.”

Martin Luther, The Papacy at Rome (1520), Holman ed., vol. 1, p. 351; LW 39:67

“The external Roman Church we all see, therefore it cannot be the true Church, which is believed, and which is a community or assembly of the saints in faith, for no one can see who is a saint or a believer.”

Martin Luther, The Papacy at Rome (1520), Holman ed., vol. 1, p. 361; LW 39:75

In 37 sermons by 31 ministers, 21 statements at 10 recorded meetings (2017–2026), LLC ministers and leaders identified God’s kingdom with this organization, or said there is no faith outside it. All of them, with the recording at each →

The kingdom is this organization:

“And that if at any times you have questions about the work of the LLC, the LLC is us. We are God's kingdom … here on earth and here in our organization in North America”

Carey Simonson, Outlook, sermon, 2017-09-24 ▶ 00:28:30

“In North American Zion, the address for this living faith is under the [Laestadian] Lutheran Church. And we believe that the administration of God's house in our land is under this organization.”

Ray Waaraniemi, LLC Summer Services, sermon, 2020-07-04 ▶ 00:24:12

“I think what we're being asked to choose is to trust that we are in God's kingdom. That the [Laestadian] Lutheran Churches in North America and sister organizations throughout the world are God's kingdom. … And as God's kingdom, they're guided by His Holy Spirit.”

Unidentified speaker, LLC meeting with Minneapolis, 2022-05-14 ▶ 01:20:11 transcript

“The correct way to believe is that which is revealed through the Holy Spirit in God's living congregation and nowhere else. … when you believe simply that this is God's congregation, when you believe simply that there is no other place where I or anyone else can find salvation, … but in this small and precious flock”

Tomm Stewart, Seattle, sermon, 2023-08-20 ▶ 00:52:25

At the 2022 vote, the question put to the delegates by the chairman and the LLC staff:

“Is God's kingdom here today? Is God's kingdom present here in this gathering? Is the Holy Spirit here? … But if you answer the question that God's kingdom, is it here today? Is the Holy Spirit speaking? And if your answer is no, then to me it's clear that we are not part of the same fellowship.”

Jim Frantti, LLC annual meeting, 2022-07-02 ▶ 02:05:11 transcript

Jim Frantti, 2 Jul 2022 at [02:09:55]: “So I say to those of you who have been battling against God's congregation, is God's kingdom here?” ▶ 02:09:55 transcript

“Do you believe that God's kingdom is here, that God's spirit is here, that the body of Christ is here? He has spoken.”

Jon Bloomquist, LLC annual meeting, 2022-07-02 ▶ 02:16:00 transcript

Ceased by vote. After the vote, sermons taught that the removal by the delegates was the Spirit's own act separating the two congregations from God's kingdom:

“Or we even question that decision that was made last summer there at that annual meeting when God even revealed to those delegates there to even make that decision that separated those two congregations from the rest of God's living kingdom.”

Stanley Ylioja, Outlook, sermon, 2023-04-23 ▶ 00:16:51

“In the same way there at that annual meeting, the Spirit instructed, … that we must sever ourselves from this false spirit, that this spirit must be removed from the congregation. And at that time, these congregations, as we recall, Wolf Lake and Minneapolis, were removed from the LLC. This then was an open heresy in our midst. … I think we can safely say that this was the work of the Spirit. This was the work of God.”

Carey Simonson, Saskatoon, sermon, 2024-10-06 ▶ 00:25:27

The book and Luther hold that the unerring congregation is the hidden assembly of believers, known only to God and marked by the gospel and sacraments. The LLC applied “the congregation cannot err” to a delegate vote of a legal corporation, and treated the vote as removing two congregations from God's kingdom.

“If you are very gifted at sports and if you are in high school, your fellow students and the coaches would love that you would be on the sports teams of the school. And through the Holy Spirit, God's kingdom has always taught that we would avoid those places of competition that would draw our hearts away from God.”

James Jurmu, Rockford, sermon, 2025-01-19 ▶ 00:31:34

In 72 sermons by 43 ministers, and 6 statements at 4 recorded meetings (2015–2026), LLC ministers and leaders treated sports, Halloween, television, makeup, earrings and the like as sins, or as matters “the kingdom has revealed.” All of them, with the recording at each →

The pattern: concede that the Bible is silent, then ground the rule in a decision credited to the Holy Spirit, and make obedience to it the test of faith:

“You believers, you don't go there to the movies. You believers, you avoid partaking of alcohol. You believers, you avoid having a television in your home. It's not a work that we do or from this list of rules. But isn't it this way that we endeavor to keep faith and a clean conscience? And these things the Spirit reveals to be sin. The Bible doesn't tell us. We've used this example many times, but it's so clear. The Bible doesn't tell us about television. But God, through His Spirit, through the Holy Spirit in Zion, has revealed this.”

Marvin Wittenberg, Outlook, sermon, 2015-04-05 ▶ 00:20:15

“But we must differentiate between that which the Spirit has taught. We know things like television and worldly music. or celebrating of Halloween, little things like this, that those are not merely traditions of man, but the Spirit has taught the congregation of God that these things are not good and are not right.”

David Anderson, Alaska, sermon, 2018-09-23 ▶ 00:20:34

David Anderson, 23 Sep 2018 at [00:20:05]: “So we don't follow these things that are necessarily traditional. We don't have to uphold them.” ▶ 00:20:05

“You will not find television or trick-or-treating in the cover of this Bible. But yet God still guides and he still teaches and he still instructs his children. I have recently heard this sort of a saying, that these instructions and teaching are man-made sins. ... that I cannot watch television or have a social drink or go trick-or-treating. That is nothing but decisions of men. Dear brothers and sisters, do not confuse the Holy Spirit with decisions of men. Do not begin to speak evil against the Holy Spirit.”

Eric Mattila, Phoenix, sermon, 2021-02-21 ▶ 00:30:28

Eric Mattila, 21 Feb 2021 at [00:31:53]: “It is a very sobering matter when we speak about that sin of blaspheming.” ▶ 00:31:53

“Just because movies and television and these types of things weren't there then. It's been revealed through the Holy Spirit in the congregation that those are sin. That they're wrong. So it doesn't speak specifically to that in the Bible. So it doesn't change.”

Peter Lever, Spokane, sermon, 2021-10-10 ▶ 00:16:09

“When we have made a decision as a congregation, or there's been instruction in the congregation, and I think of things like the instruction that we wouldn't have televisions in our home. We want to be obedient to that instruction and not question that. Is that truly true? the instruction that God has for us? Or is that just something that man has brought forward? And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die”

Stephen Warwaruk, Outlook, sermon, 2022-03-07 ▶ 00:07:26

“And I've heard over the course of some years that of course television is not in the Bible and so forth, but if we start to put in God's kingdom where us as board members or speakers begin to question these decisions that were guided by the Holy Spirit, And if we have these discussions, and another one I think of is Halloween. ... If we begin to question and say that, well, I can... I can do this and it's not going to harm my faith life. There's other believers that know that this happens, but this is, I would say, very simply grieving the Holy Spirit.”

Unidentified speaker, Minnesota-wide meeting, 2018-06-14 ▶ 02:34:49 transcript

Made the mark of faith:

“This mutual acquaintance, they were confessing faith, yet the wife wore earrings. When I went into that house, I knew they were confessing faith. I greeted the husband. And the words wouldn't come out to greet the wife.”

Richard Nevala, Rockford, sermon, 2016-06-26 ▶ 00:14:44

“That she has never understood how wearing earrings would steal her faith. But she would not want to wear earrings because she wants to keep her faith. ... Do not pierce your ears and wear those things. Why? Will we get to heaven by not wearing earrings? No, but we'll be able to keep faith, childlike faith, by listening to how God's Spirit teaches us to avoid the ways of this world.”

James Jurmu, Monticello, sermon, 2019-11-17 ▶ 00:32:54

“In the last heresy, the heresy of 1973, There were a number of fruits of a false spirit that were prevalent at that time. It was leniency, greeting heretics, watching and owning televisions, Marriage with unbelievers. Obsession with sports.”

Neil Waaraniemi, Menahga, sermon, 2021-07-25 ▶ 00:28:43

Raised against Wolf Lake at the Menahga and Wolf Lake boards meeting of 26 March 2021, late in the evening, as something heard:

“One, I understand that there are several who are participating in Halloween from Wolf Lake. Is that true? Do any of you guys know, is it true or not? … Like the Halloween deal. I have heard that it is fairly widely participated in by members from Wolf Lake.”

Mark Skoog, Menahga board chairman ▶ 03:14:42 transcript

What it came to, from the Wolf Lake chairman:

“I will say this. If my kids did go to Dan and Nicole's for Halloween to get some candy. If that is a problem – I don't even know if they did. If they did, I hope that is not really a problem.”

Pat Lake, Wolf Lake board chairman ▶ 03:17:56 transcript

No one at the meeting gave a reason for the rule from Scripture or from the book. Dave Keranen, who had raised it at a meeting in January, said he could not give one either:

“It is difficult for me to explain to my children why we don't go trick or treating. I simply trust that God's Kingdom through the Holy Spirit has said that it is not a place for a child of God.”

Dave Keranen ▶ 03:39:15 transcript

Content, not the device. At the Minneapolis Congregation Meeting of 6 May 2018, John Lehtola recalled the principle he had stated in the 1990s about videos:

“The content is the deciding factor. … The guiding principle, according to the Holy Spirit, is content decides. And that did not seem to fare well with some people.”

John Lehtola, Minneapolis Congregation Meeting, 6 May 2018 ▶ 01:14:48 transcript

Later in the same meeting Walt Lampi, of the LLC office, raised it against him, and in the same breath said the decision was about content:

“The topic of television came up. He made a statement that television decision made back in the day was obsolete. … I personally don't think it's obsolete. I always think it, I've always thought it was about content. But I worry why we would go there to kind of undercut that congregational decision because it's brought much good to the believers.”

Walt Lampi, Minneapolis Congregation Meeting, 6 May 2018 ▶ 02:04:20 transcript

John answered:

“So I am not or have never undone the so-called television decision. I'm just illustrating a point that now today with our cell phones and our computers we have the television right at our fingertips and it's even much more and much worse than television ever was. … we need to be watchful and careful because television, and more than television, is in our homes and in our hands.”

John Lehtola, Minneapolis Congregation Meeting, 6 May 2018 ▶ 02:09:24 transcript

Five months later he was answering the same charge, read from the list of concerns about him:

“it seems like John's views have raised concern. Comments like the television decision is obsolete. I agree that the devices and the device that I'm holding in my hand … These devices, we can get television on them.”

John Lehtola, Minneapolis Congregation Meeting, 30 Sep 2018 ▶ 02:11:33 transcript

In 21 statements at 12 recorded meetings (2018–2022), speakers on the LLC side faulted those who questioned the LLC for reading prepared statements, quotations or Scripture, or granted that what they read was accurate and set it aside for want of the Spirit. Two of the statements are reports of earlier criticism, by John Lehtola and Janelle Lehtola. All of them, with the recording at each →

The request to be shown an error from Scripture was itself put forward as the fault:

“And John has said that he feels that what he's quoting is how he believes. And I believe that. And so, the stuff that is continuously quoted, I have to believe that that's where John's concerns lie. … John has answered, well, feelings don't mean anything to me. Show me a scripture where I'm wrong. But, brothers and sisters, the Spirit of God works in God's children. … And we can't dismiss it just because someone says that if you can't prove it with Scripture, then I won't listen to it.”

Keith Waaraniemi, MLLC / RLLC meeting at the LLC office, 24 Apr 2018 ▶ 04:03:52 transcript

“When I heard Al Lake speak, I have to agree with what Tommi and others have mentioned. I was confused. It seems like the spirit did not come clear. I'm not disagreeing with a lot of the quotations that you read from scripture. They are factual. But my question arises from the fact that why doesn't something answer to the spirit?”

Don Lahti (Brainerd), Menahga joint boards meeting, 12 Jan 2019 ▶ 01:06:15 transcript

Prepared statements and “defenses” set against the Spirit:

“We have God's written word. But without the Spirit speaking and opening it, it's a dead word. … The whole world has the written scriptures, and they can form their defenses to how they believe from the scriptures, which is why there's probably hundreds of denominations. And so it seems when some of you come to teach God's kingdom, you have your defenses prepared ahead of time, oftentimes. And we hear them, but we don't hear the comforter there.”

Nick Ylitalo (Menahga), Midwest boards meeting (MBMAC), 20 Nov 2021 ▶ 02:15:00 transcript

“I also just want to encourage you to speak from the heart. I know at times we read a lot of prepared statements and whatnot, and I think we're going to have a lot of … this evening, so it'd be good if we could just keep it to what's on our heart and mind. As it says in Matthew 10, 19, and 20. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak, for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.”

Keith Hillukka (Phoenix board chairman), Phoenix congregation meeting about Brett Rintamaki, 8 Jan 2022 ▶ 00:23:33 transcript

“If you have some prepared statements, maybe you can email them in. But for the interest of time, I just want to limit this to the delegates, if there's any more comments from the delegates.”

the moderator, LLC annual meeting, 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 03:04:07 transcript

“But regarding the two spirits, Jesus was tempted by the devil in the wilderness … If we don't use the word to defend our faith, what do we use? If it is truly the highest authority as our bylaws construct our Constitution even state, why wouldn't we use it to defend what we believe is true?”

Ann Parks (Minneapolis), LLC annual meeting, 2 Jul 2022 ▶ 03:04:27 transcript

The LLC side read prepared texts itself. At the 2016 ministers’ camp the LLC’s account of the Wolf Lake meetings was read from a written text, and the meetings at which others were faulted for reading heard read introductions, synopses and reports:

“I'm just going to ask our brother Keith to read from a summary he prepared for last Friday's meeting. … this part of this introduction tonight with a few additional comments that I didn't mention at April 8th.”

Jim Frantti (presiding; inferred from the recording), asking LLC board member Keith Waaraniemi to read, LLC ministers' camp, Stony Lake (Friday session), 15 Apr 2016 ▶ 00:35:06 transcript

“I was going to read in a book here because I don't know how to remember things and speak them into mic, but like confession is not needed since absolution proclaimed and the original conversion is sufficient for a lifetime.”

Keith Waaraniemi (LLC board), Menahga joint boards meeting, 12 Jan 2019 ▶ 00:29:49 transcript

“Nine of the 11 board members were in agreement with it. So I'll read it. It's kind of long, but I'll try to move right along.”

the Minneapolis board's report, read by “Mike” (first name only on the tape), Minneapolis annual meeting, 8 Mar 2020 ▶ 01:04:38 transcript

“And so I've tried to gather some thoughts together from things that have been said recently and discussions, and I'll try not to spend too much time on that, but I will try. The continent-wide meeting synopsis has these kinds of statements in it … There is a concern that a different understanding on the doctrine of the congregation exists in our midst.”

Keith Waaraniemi, Midwest boards meeting (MBMAC), 20 Nov 2021 ▶ 02:30:12 transcript

Interpretation. The book tells the Christian to read the Bible and notes that Jesus answered the devil with God’s Word (p. 129). On the tapes the fault found was not in what was read, which was often conceded to be accurate, but in who read it. When the LLC side read prepared texts, no one faulted it; when the other side read Scripture, Luther or SRK sources, it was called prepared defenses without the Spirit. Point 6 follows the same charge in sermons.