LLC Annual Meeting, July 3, 2021: the Votes on the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake Sermon Archives

Adrian? Sure, you can ask.

Okay, let's get back started on the meeting. We'll begin this afternoon by singing the second verse of Song 434 for all families.

Now from this table as we leave Our praises, Lord, we give to Thee To souls from weary in the strife

Provide, O Lord, the bread of life. Amen. Okay, so as we start the afternoon section of this annual meeting, I would just, one, I'd just like to encourage everybody when they speak

That they would use their name and what congregation they're from just makes it easier for people that are taking notes. So before lunch, we had the operating, the draft of the operating plan was presented. And now would be a time that we could discuss what was presented. One thing is we do not need an approval

For the operating plan for today, but it will be from the discussion that we have now, it will be updated or added to or changed, and then we will have the official document later and it'll be sent out to the congregations through the delegates for approval.

So I'd open up the floor at this time for discussion on the operating plan.

Mike's iPhone. Mike's iPhone. Yeah, can you hear me? Yes. Okay.

First, I want to bring greetings from the Cokato congregation. They asked that their greetings would be brought to the meeting, and I bring those greetings. And also, they wanted to express their support for the operating plan and also the support for those that work at the LLC board and also on the staff there. So I want to bring that message here also.

Just a couple thoughts I had as I was listening to the brothers present different portions of that operating plan. The thought came to me after they were done speaking that each and every one of those items just seems so important and the support in our congregation for those items is 100% behind them and also we look forward to

I've seen how those plans develop in the future here, so I just wanted to express that thought. And then the one thought that kind of stuck with me was when Eric was mentioning that the music committee and that position that Lisa has is a part-time position, but she's working full-time.

I know many have certainly appreciated the work that she's done and so I want to express a special thanks to her for that work and then also encourage the board that, you know, continue to explore and if that position, which it seems like it is a full-time position, I think that we should seriously consider

Making that position a full-time position as quickly as we can. So I just want to encourage you to continue to be proactive instead of reactive in that. So that was all. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else?

I could also take this time for... This is Andrew Jurmu from Elk River. Anyway, we met as a congregation to visit about this operating plan. There was a lot of support for the board and the staff, and they realized how much work actually goes into it. I mean, it's a lot of work and...

I think the congregation is very supportive of and happy for the temporal work. Not only the temporal work, but also the spiritual work that is being done in these times that are a bit difficult. We thank you and we also thank God that he has given willing workers.

Allen Pirness. Allen Pirness. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. God's peace everyone. Just a question from what Elizabeth was presenting. Did I see correctly that the income from membership dues has

As decreased, I'm wondering, is there any analysis or any ideas on what's happening there? We see that confirmation enrollment keeps increasing and I'm just wondering why we're seeing the membership increase. Is it a lack of participation

By individual believers in their congregation membership or what's happening? Elizabeth? As far as the...

Membership in each congregation, I'm not really sure why some are decreasing, but there have been some areas that the membership has switched to another congregation, but maybe haven't actually become members in their new congregation yet, or it hasn't quite caught up. In other areas, there's probably just a decrease that they're just not aware of the why for sure.

And then the decrease in dues, you know, part of it is membership, but it's also some congregations haven't participated at the full amount. And some of them have communicated with us that they're having financial difficulties during the pandemic and that they're going to try to catch up. Others haven't communicated at all. But for the most part, we've had

You know, good participation, but there are some that definitely are less. Any other discussion?

Okay, so yeah, one more item is those that are behind on dues that haven't communicated with us, we are going to reach out to them and just try to find out what their plans are going forward for this year, 2021, and the years following. Brian Johnson.

This is not dealing with the budget, but this is dealing with the HOT committee, the Humanitarian Aid Committee, the LLC committee, and it was stated here earlier how under the operating plan of the pastoral mission work oversee that, but I just want to thank the North American believers on behalf of the

Commander of the Aid Committee, for your generous gifts of money and help. Last year, the COVID 2020 year has been extremely hard on our brothers and sisters in developing countries, in Ecuador and countries in Africa. They're at a very severe disadvantage. They usually have to get out there and get their food every day almost. It's different than what we have here.

And they've totally appreciated our helping them out. So we usually give them grants, quarterly grants, but we've increased the LLC. HACC Committee has increased those funding to those brothers and sisters in those areas because of the hardship they've had. And they want to express their sincere gratitude and thanks to you North American believers for your gift of money and helping them out.

And I also want to thank the Monticello congregation for opening their facilities for the believers here that we can gather here today and this weekend for this summer services. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else?

Dave Keranen. Yeah, I would just add, on behalf of the Menahga congregation, much support for the operating plan and the LLC staff and board. A big thank you from members. And with that, I would just make a motion to approve, or well, no, we actually don't approve that operating plan, but so we would just...

Moving forward with this draft. I just want to make sure that if people do have something they'd like to say they have a chance, but I also understand that we can move on. So,

I think for this, there's two action items that we do have to take care of. The first one is the approval of the 2020 financial statements. And then the second one, well, let's do just one at a time. So we need an approval for the 2020 financial statements. Great.

Just because I'm a tight pin, each vote we take is 30 bucks. So if we could combine these into one motion, we could save $30 and we could buy coffee next week for the staff.

All right well I guess we're going to do well I think we can do both of them so let's do there's two of them there's approval of the 2020 financial statements and then there's approval of the 2022 of proposed budgets.

There was a text message here that came from Roy Pikkarainen at [Pelkie] that he would make a motion to approve. Okay, so Roy Pikkarainen makes a motion to approve.

Okay, so then we need a show of hands. Do we get a vote on this or do we just do a show of hands? Can we do a vote? Oh, we need a second. We got a second from Dave Niemi from Toronto. Okay, so now we're going to send that to a vote.

And I'll let you know later what happens. Oh, the approval for the 2021 agenda has been approved and passed on the voting. So now we'll go into item number six, the 2022 membership dues.

The current dues are $34 per member per month or $408 per member per year. And the student is 50% of the above membership dues. And the LLC board recommendation is that the board recommends no dues increase for 2022. Any discussion?

Or does anybody want to make a motion to accept the no-losing fees?

So anybody out there? Maybe we had too good of a lunch. Too much turkey.

That's the bulk of the next one, the previous ones. Oh, maybe I went too quick. What do you think I restated?

So we're still waiting for the dues membership motion to accept it. And so I have a motion to be accepted.

All right, Brent Huhta makes a motion that we approve the membership dues. Do we have a second? Do we have a second? So we need a vote on this one too? Is that where we're going now? Okay, now we got to go to a vote.

Okay, so we will go on to item seven, which is the election of LLC board members. And I would ask if there is members or one person from each area that would like to speak, like from the Western, is there someone that would like to speak from the Western area?

Chris Smith. Chris Smith. Yes, Chris Smith from Glendale. And from our western area meeting, we'd like to bring the name forward of Lauri Nevala for the nomination for the

Retiring position of Ken Wuollet. Thank you. I just wanted to say that Ken's name is not on the agenda. Oh, so Ken's name is not on the agenda because he's retiring.

Okay, so Ken is retiring. It's just that it was not brought to the attention before the agenda was put together. Okay, we'd like to formally nominate, yeah, Lauri Nevala for the Western Area position. Okay, so we have Lauri Nevala.

From the Western, is there another one from the Western? It was also

The nomination for Mark Wittenberg to be nominated for the LLC board from our Western Area meeting. Mark Wittenberg? How about from the, how about from the, so there's the, who takes care of the at-large? Is that part of the Midwestern? Yeah. So is there any, is there, are there,

Are there people from the Midwestern or anybody from the Midwestern area that would like to? Yeah, it's still Christmas. Yeah, it's Christmas.

Evan, please state your full name and where you're from. This is Evan Niemola from Seattle. Can you guys hear me? Yep. Yeah, so Jon Stewart is retiring, and at our last Western Board meeting, Western Area Board meeting,

It was Mark Wittenberg's name was chosen as the name to bring to the annual meeting. I don't know if you guys need any more clarification, but that's what was the resolution. So that was Mark Wittenberg, and then Jon Stewart was retiring?

Correct, yeah, Jon Stewart's retiring, then Mark Wittenberg's name was selected to replace Jon Stewart. Okay, so we got two from the Western. We got anybody from the Midwest?

Is there somebody from Williston that would like to speak on behalf of the Midwestern area?

John Lehtola from Williston. Can you hear me again? Yes. Good space. At our last board meeting, Carey Simonson's term is expiring, but he is moving to Finland, and he has agreed to continue serving on the board remotely, being that everything's been held remotely anyhow, so his name was brought up to serve again.

Jim Frantti. Yeah, just to clarify that, Carey Simonson is on the board from the Midwest, and Carey's term is not expiring, but he is going on a temporary assignment over to Finland, leaving sometime

Whenever the travel restrictions change a bit, I think they're thinking sometime this fall. And so he brought it to the boards in the area, whether he should actually be replaced on the LLC board or do they want him to continue to serve, but he would have to do it remotely. And I know that the Saskatchewan boards

Felt that they wanted him to continue to serve and serve remotely, which can be done. We've had the Canadian brothers serving remotely this last year and a half. So there's really not a decision to be made with regard to Carey, unless the meeting felt differently. But I know from the area, they would like to see Carey just continue his term of service. And he'll be returning then sometime early next year.

And three terms and questions, which is Steve Haataja, George Koivukangas, and Keith Waaraniemi. So we still have the, so Steve Haataja, George Koivukangas, and Keith Waaraniemi are from the Midwestern area, and their terms are due to expire.

Nobody from Williston is charged. Dave Keranen? Well, I was in attendance at the Midwestern Area meeting and maybe Williston didn't get the memo that they were to bring the names, but these were discussed here in the Midwest.

And from the Midwestern area board meeting supports asking Keith to continue to serve as well as George. Steve Haataja has requested to retire. And from the Midwestern area, we'd like to bring Randy Hillukka's name to replace Steve on the LLC board. That was Randy Hillukka.

Okay, would there be anybody from the eastern congregations that would want to bring anything?

Well, this is Chuck Honkala from Detroit. God's peace, everyone. We would support approving Pete Kuopus to continue in his position. Thank you. So, I don't know if I got this straight. Yeah, all right.

So there's Mark Wittenberg, who take John, John will retire, but Mark Wittenberg, Randy Hillukka, George Koivukangas, Keith Waaraniemi, Peter Kuopus, and Lauri Nevala. Mike, do you have your hand up, Mike Kuopus?

Yes, I do. Mike Kuopus, Ishpeming, I'm here with Anthony Brat. The Ishpeming board discussed Pete Kuopus' term and there was unanimous support for him serving another term. RLLC delegates. Okay, RLLC delegates.

This is Keith Waho from the Rockford congregation. First, I'd like to bring greetings from Rockford. The congregation wished their greetings be sent to this meeting. I'd first like to express thanks from the congregation to those three members who are retiring.

And most of all, thanks to God that they are given willing hearts to serve. And then the congregation fully supports the names being brought forward to this meeting for approval. Thanks. Thank you. So with those names before us,

So if there's no more discussion, I think we could ask for a motion to approve these names. Allen Pirness. Yeah, I just wanted to speak to the names that are out there, that all of them are known by the believers and are in the

Love of their home congregations and in the love of the believers in Zion. And we trust that as God has given the gifts for those who are retiring, gave them the gifts to serve in this role that we also trust that those gifts will be given as they are needed. So I suppose with that, I can make the motion to approve those names.

Okay, do we have a second? Chair, we know there was also a motion. Oh, Troy Fredrickson? So we can make Troy Fredrickson a second. Is Troy Rocker? No. He's in Montana. Okay, Troy seconds.

So then there'll be a vote on that one too. We'll send that to vote. Just an item here, the 2022 proposed budget and the 2020 financial statements have been passed, the voting passed. Jim Frantti?

I just wanted to take a moment when we have completed this discussion on the election of board members to acknowledge those three brothers whose retirement we've granted from the board. Our brother Steve Haataja has been serving on the LLC board since 1987.

He's been for 34 years serving on our board. And for many of those years, he has served as our treasurer and he has served faithfully and with the gifts that God has given. And then our brother, Jon Stewart, he has been serving on the board since the year 2000, 21 years of serving on the board again.

With gifts that God has given him in the last several years, he's been our assistant board secretary. And then finally, Ken Wuollet, our brother Ken has been serving on the board since 2010. So he's been serving for 11 years, again, faithfully. And with all three of these brothers, I can say on behalf of our board that we have served in

Unity of love and spirit and faith. And so in some ways it's a little sad to see them retire, but we know that everybody's time comes to retire and allow others to serve. But I would just like to, on behalf of the North American Zion, give our word of thanks to Steve and to John and to Ken.

Dear brothers, we will miss your service on the board, but please stay in touch with us. And please remember those who are now coming onto the board.

And I'd like to also, on behalf of the North American Zion, say to our brother Randy Hillukka and our brother Lauri Nevala and our brother Mark Wittenberg, who is not able to be here in person, but to those three brothers. First, I can say that my heart joins with the decision in our three areas to choose these brothers now to serve.

Welcome, dear brothers, to serve freely with those gifts that God gives. And I think you have heard from this discussion that you serve in the love and support of the North American Zion. And that's so important when we serve that we can feel that as weak servants, we are carried with the love and support and prayers of the believers. So thanks to those

Outgoing and welcome to those who are serving and thanks to God that he continues to provide gifts and servants. Thank you. Okay, so the LLC dues are passed.

So we'll go on to item eight, is future summer and winter services. So the 2022 Western Longview, through July 1st through the 4th, then in July 23, it'll be in Northern Minnesota, which will be Silver Springs. 2024 will be in Silver Springs.

2025 would be in Saskatchewan, 2026 in Elk River or Silver Springs, and 2027 in Toronto. And then the board has that all requests for hosting summer services be submitted to the LLC board in writing. In turn, the board will coordinate these requests and suggest the location of summer services to the annual meeting for the coming years.

2022 events, there'll be Phoenix Winter Services March 17th through 20th and LLC Summer Services in Longview, July 1st through 4th. So now we'll go on to item nine, which will be the reports from the delegates. So on here we have the unfinished business, there is none.

And then new business, we have a few, but I think we'll just go in order from how we got them. Maybe the first one is a discussion to move LLC summer services away from the July 4th weekend.

So, option A is continue holding LLC summer services on or around the 4th of July weekend, or move the LLC summer services to one week after the summer services in Finland, or the Suvis in Finland. Jamal?

Randy Herrala used to say when Jim Ball was on the board and Jim Jurmu and I that LLC board meetings were like gymnasium.

Just a little background on this. Actually, the Detroit delegates brought to an annual meeting sometime back the thought that July 4th weekend for summer services, that maybe we should consider whether that's a good weekend because of challenges with lodging and other things around that weekend.

Then subsequent to that, when in the last year now we have been doing these online services and we've participated with SRK in online broadcasting and programming.

We have received this kind of feedback from, for example, Finland that they have appreciated very much if our services and theirs are on different weekends so that we can enjoy both and we can work together on those broadcasts. But when we look at the schedule, SRK's long-standing tradition is that their Suviseurat are held the weekend after St. John's.

And sometimes that's the 4th of July weekend, and sometimes it's not. And so we've had this discussion that if we want to avoid conflict with Suviseurat, should we consider putting our summer services one week after Finland's services? Which would mean sometimes they'd be on the 4th of July weekend, and sometimes not.

Actually, our brother Matt did about a 20-year research on all of the weekends and discovered that more than 50% of the time, our services would be the weekend after the 4th of July. And then somewhat less than half time, they'd be on the fourth weekend.

So I think probably the big question here is whether the membership would like to simply keep to the tradition that we have had, or whether they would like to go to that practice of coordinating our summer services with the Finnish Suviseurat.

The board has discussed it. I think probably amongst the delegates, like amongst the board, we can find good reasons to do both. But we do acknowledge that we have really had good working relationship with SRK on doing these online broadcasts. And in some ways there would be a real benefit to be able to schedule things so that they aren't on conflicting weekends.

But it's an item for the membership. And I don't know that we have to have even a decision today, but we'd sure like to hear what the membership thinks through the delegates. If we can't make a final decision today, if we can even get some guidance, and then we could maybe make a proposal even later and send it out to the delegates. But I just would invite you to bring

Freely, any feedback from your local congregations? Okay, does anybody have any discussion on moving or leaving summer services as they are or else moving them to the week after summer services?

Well, I think, I think... Andrew from Phoenix. From Phoenix? Is someone from Phoenix? From Phoenix. Aaron Simonson from Phoenix. Can you hear me? Yep. Good space. Phoenix said the congregation had recommended keeping the same weekend, the July 4th weekend.

The congregation had a discussion and that's what they had wanted is the same weekend. Thank you. Any other discussion?

This is Chuck Honkala again from Detroit. We've had some discussion over the last couple of years at the annual meeting, and even as a congregation, we've looked both keeping the services the way the original historical dates have been, as well as the change, and we've had both sides of the congregation looking at it. But there has expressed an interest over the last year or so that

We could enjoy and participate in both the U.S. and North American services as well as the SRK services in Finland and moving them a week after I think would accommodate that. Now it's, you know, even with the online services it becomes a little difficult to, you know, to pick up the Finland services. There is a little difference in time so we're able to go in and get some of that but that's been the expressed interest from Detroit.

But I don't know that it's that hard and fast. Should the desire be to keep the dates, I don't think we would have a problem with that either. Thank you. Mark?

Mark Haataja from Menahga. We discussed this topic at our discussion evening we had and I guess from our discussion it was clear that our membership would prefer to keep the dates as they have been, but I would say based on the explanation Jim gave and our discussion was primarily around logistics with hotels and everything, I would say we would be very open to perhaps

More of an explanation to be shared with our congregation on this sharing of resources with the SRK, and I feel that our membership would also support that if that decision was made. None.

John Juncker and Monticello congregation. I don't think we've had a recent or extensive or maybe hardly any conversation with the congregation around this topic of moving summer services, but I did just get a note here. So that a reminder that Monticello, the town of Monticello has a summer festival weekend following the 4th of July, July each year. So that would be something locally we'd want to consider.

I'm not certain of the impact of that, but just wanted to share that. Thank you. Troy Fredrickson. Can you hear me? Yes.

I can't say that we really came to a solid opinion one way or the other, but we were definitely interested in hearing more of what the LLC board, what their thoughts were behind this. But one idea that was brought up was

Would there be an option for the hosting congregation to decide what weekend they would prefer to have it on? And then also, I have a clarification question. So option B says to move LLC Summit Services one week after the Fourth of July weekend.

Would we have the possibility of moving some of the services just to one week after the SRK services so that, as Matt found, it'd be 50% of the time on the 4th of July weekend and 50% of the time the weekend after? Sure, so that was my fault, kind of, because

It does say on here, it says move LLC summer services one week after the 4th of July, but I tried to clarify that it would be moved to one week after Suvis in Finland. So John Lee says, Raynard has discussed moving the summer service dates

And with support leaving as it has been traditionally or moving to one week after SRK services.

So I don't know what everybody thinks of this, but I'm thinking that we could just maybe the delegates should bring it back to their congregations and visit about that in the congregation and then get back and try to get something back to the board, you know, maybe later this summer if there's some

I think Dylan's first. Is that Jim? Jim Wall. Oh, I'm sorry. He just says this was not discussed in Prescott. Then there's John Lehtola. Okay, John Lehtola.

John Lehtola from Williston again. I forgot to bring greetings of love and good speech from Williston. Many greetings were sent and this was also not discussed here, but I think I agree with Phil's comments as far as bringing it back to local congregations and seeing what everybody's thoughts are on this instead of making a decision today. Just see what everybody's thoughts are.

Thank you. Allen Pirness? Yeah, similar thoughts, but I'm just wondering if we could have communication come from the LLC.

To the congregations in the form of a letter or perhaps as a proposal in the next year's operating plan that this would be formally put in there as something to discuss. With the discussion that we heard, comments from Jim Frantti, those made a lot of sense as far as clarification of where the

Around the discussion of what's behind this. So maybe it would be better if those were put into a letter and sent to the congregations or included in next year's operating plan. I'm not sure the timeline that needs to be done on this, but those are my thoughts. Thank you. Eric Jurmu. I'll read my suggestion.

John? Yeah, that was... Jon Bloomquist from Menahga, not a delegate, but interested observer. And my thoughts are much similar to what has just come out. It seems like we need to maybe from the office prepare a more,

Detailed explanation. And also, as I think Jim Frantti has noted on several occasions, there will be a domino effect in terms of how it affects camp schedules and who knows what else until we actually study that. And I think it would be very helpful for our membership to be able to see the whole picture. And if we prepare that well and send it out, it would be good

Deal with it maybe next year then. Chris Smith? Yeah, Chris Smith from Glendale. If I can recall some of the thoughts from our members centered around this, that there was no definitive, I guess, answer to the question whether it would be moved or not, but some of the pros and cons were discussed.

This is how it would affect the confirmation camps that usually start shortly after summer services and those schedules which we understand could be adjusted. But also the July 4th weekend being a holiday weekend where there's a national holiday or day off work which helps facilitate some of those traveling.

And work schedules, that was a consideration there. And also, you know, the cost of lodging in some areas maybe escalated during the July 4th weekend. But there was a lot of, some good thoughts centered around that, but it seemed that all were willing to adjust and would be comfortable with keeping the date or changing it to the following weekend.

Thank you. So I think that's where we'll go from here is that the LLC will come up with something to send out to the congregations to discuss. Okay. So now we got two other items on new business. Gary Lehtola, are you out there? Do you want to speak to your... Yeah, I'm here.

Yeah, just to reiterate what I said earlier is that just a proposal here that I could make a motion out of this that if the SRK can't send the speaker this fall on a mission trip here that maybe it could happen through Zoom.

Is there any discussion? I have some questions for Gary. You want to ask them? Jon Bloomquist. So Gary, I'd have a couple of questions being the, I guess the Mission Department would have to

Determine how this happens. It's not difficult, of course, to create a Zoom connection, but what do you envision, like a one-time Zoom service that all of our congregations could log onto and participate in if they wish, or something more extensive than that? I'm guessing it's probably not

We probably want to go down the path of 30 Zoom services, for example, which is basically what a mission trip would entail. But if you have some thoughts or ideas about what you are envisioning, that would help us to know kind of where to start from anyway. Yeah, that's a fair question for sure.

And I agree with that, but probably not 30. I would think more between probably like five and 10. And obviously if it's in Zoom, that could be recorded and that could be used and that type of thing. But you'd probably have to do different time zones anyway, right? At a minimum, you'd probably have to do different time zones. But yeah, that's my thoughts right now.

That gives us enough to start a discussion. Okay, so John said that gives them enough to actually give a discussion started with the SRK. Alan, raise his hand. Allen Pirness. Yeah, I was just wondering if that's where we could leave this, is that

The LLC mission department would visit about the feasibility of it and with the SRK and they would have a joint discussion and that we would accept their joint recommendation on that. Yeah, I agree with that also. I think we can leave it there.

If others have something else they'd like to visit about weekends. Still, but then let's go on to this last item. It's somewhere in my notes. Dave Keranen from Menahga. See, I would just, like I brought the item, this question around archiving sermons and

From Wolf Lake and Minneapolis, I guess, in particular. We know this hasn't been a new question, but we were aware that this had been visited about in some congregation discussions, and it came up in our congregation as well. We visited about it. The membership was concerned about this, regarding this.

That it causes some confusion with the fact that congregations are not sending speakers at these places and speakers are not shared back and forth and some that have gone there to serve in those congregations are not going

Congregations and our membership asked us as delegates to bring this to this meeting today and with the hope for some form of action to potentially come from today's meeting but I guess I'll just leave it at that for now and just hope for some more thoughts from other delegates who

And possibly visit about it at their congregation level. John Juntton. Hello. John Juntton in Monticello. I do have a comment from the congregation regarding the topic of archiving sermons, but I should also

Share that when we met as a congregation prepping for the annual meeting, the congregation asked the delegates to convey the deep appreciation the congregation has for LLC board and staff and all the work that they do and the congregation recognizes the importance and the need for the work and deeply appreciates it and wants to convey that to the LLC board and staff.

And then regarding the archiving sermons topic, at that same meeting where we had our delegates report with the congregation to review the operating plan and to get their feedback, this topic of archiving sermons came up. I would say it was a pretty general consensus. There was concern around the sermons of Minneapolis and Wolf Lake on the archive list. And

Delegates were asked to bring that concern and raise it as a topic for discussion, which it now has been raised. So, one, two. That's very similar to Menahga's comments here, too. I want to share that.

Olli Kujala? Yeah, this is Olli Kujala from Minneapolis. Godspeed to all of you. And can you hear me okay? Yes. Okay, good. So, first I want to just mention that I really like to see and hear

LLC operating plan and discussion about it. And thank you. Thank you very much for arranging this Zoom meeting. This seems to be working really well. So then about this Menahga proposal. To me, this idea of removing Minneapolis and Wolf Lake sermons from LLC website, it seems quite peculiar.

The reason he mentioned something about battling, but I didn't understand what exactly was meant by that. So if Menahga congregation, and now sounds like there's other congregations also, if there is a specific concern about the teaching in those sermons, I think

Maybe there could be a more gentle way of handling this than discussing it here in LLC annual meeting. So that's if it's about the content of the sermons and so on. But then in my mind, I'm questioning that whether the concern really is about the sermons

And teachings in them? Or is the intention of the proposal to further isolate and separate these two congregations from others? Or what is the goal of this proposal?

So is this just a gateway to actively remove and expel Wolf Lake and Minneapolis from the central organization? So you all know that neither of these congregations

They have not expressed a desire to be expelled or separated from others. In contrary, Minneapolis has clearly communicated their desire to believe and stay traveling together with other believers. So it's quite unusual if we use this kind of thing in God's kingdom to

And if we have a desire to push brothers and sisters away from the sheepfold, then we know that this is not correct. This is not right. This is not the work of God or Holy Spirit. We all know this. We all know this. So if the intention of the proposal then is to manage the content of the LLC website,

I wonder, is the LLC annual meeting a practical way to manage LLC organization website? So, but anyway, I think that it's valid and it's also reasonable to remove any content from the LLC website that does not align with or

is against the LLC mission statement or our doctrinal foundation. I think that it is pertinent to ensure that we stay true to that foundation which LLC, as a central organization, stands on. Therefore, the website content should not be contrary to that foundation.

Now, in the proposal I did not hear reasoning that would support that these sermons or content of the sermons are against the LLC doctrinal foundation. Instead,

Instead of using this LLC meeting to decide on specific items in LLC website, I would think that, and I would trust that LLC office can handle the management of the website without our decision here. And maybe it would be good that any of this kind of request to remove a sermon, that they would be

Carefully evaluate, that we would actually evaluate the request and we would be transparent about the decision as well as the reasoning behind that decision. That would be good in a way that it would help to avoid confusion and

Any potential mistrust in case a sermon is removed. So just I think that we certainly here, we do not want to cause offenses by taking hasty actions that are sometimes they are difficult to undo. So

In the end of my comment, I would like to just make a following motion. And I can add this into the chat window in a second. The motion would be that the LLC office shall evaluate each request for sermon removal from LLC website. Doctrinal and other reasoning for removal

will be documented and communicated to the speaker and made available to other members if so requested. So those are my thoughts. I would like to hear other thoughts and I'll also include that motion in a chat window to help meeting chairman secretary.

Thank you. Any other comments? Dave Niemi? Dave?

Neil. Can you hear me? No, I can't. Good space, everyone. And greetings from the Toronto congregation. And we also would like to express our support to the LLC and all the work they do and the staff and the volunteers. And just like my thoughts with this proposal. We all know that we had that

Nationwide meeting in May, I believe it was. And everyone there agreed there was two spirits. God's kingdom is one faith, one hope. There isn't two spirits. It doesn't work. And when we look at these sermons, which are being archived, and it is something that our congregation has brought up before, and

Even one of the recent sermons, there is teaching in it, which I don't think follows along that same teaching that has been in God's kingdom for as long as I have been alive. And I'm sure many of the brothers there have been there. And one of the things that was discussed in that sermon was that Revelations, I believe it's chapter seven, where we speak of that

Who are those that are arrayed in white robes? And there was spoken of the robe of the endeavor, which is different than the robe of righteousness. And like I said, I may have wrong understanding, but to me, it did not join with my spirit. So I think that like this whole subject is even deeper than just even the archiving. The reality is when there's two spirits, a heresy has already happened.

This is a minor point in it, and I definitely support it. And I know our congregation would support it. But I believe that it leads to a much greater discussion of a heresy, which spiritually, in my opinion, and many of our congregation has already happened spiritually. There's wrong teachings, wrong understandings. There's battling. There are documents which are sent out, which

Are very troubling. So I think it's a bigger discussion, but definitely we would support this happening that the sermons would not be archived anymore. Jeremy Lake from Seattle.

Can you hear me? Yep. Godspeed. Greetings from Seattle, and thanks for the work that the LLC has done to put this together. This was brought to our attention just on Wednesday, so we've only had a couple days' notice of it, and we had a gathering. Our full congregation was not there, but from the members that were,

The message that they wanted to bring forth was that we would pray that each and every one of us would put your trust in God and your patience in Jesus Christ. And from us just having a couple day notice of it, it seems premature. Obviously, some of you have known about this a lot longer and have discussed it in your congregations. We have not.

We went through the operating plan and we got some members there, but not all of them. And we would like to be able to bring that forth to our congregation as a whole. And so that's our thought on that. Thank you.

Adrian, was there somebody else? Phoenix. Aaron Simonson. Can you hear me? Yes. The Phoenix congregation had the discussion on the archiving and the broadcasting of the sermons, and they had made it known that they would not want them archived or broadcasted. And that's all I had.

Okay, so then we have one from Rockford. Yeah, Mitch Loukusa from Rockford. Can you hear me? Yes. Good space. And this topic was discussed in the Rockford congregation as well. And there was the congregation was of the thought that it would be better to not archive or, yeah, I guess archive the sermons.

And maybe speaking a little bit to some of Olli's comments about the intention behind this possible move to not archive

The sermons. I know that over the last several years in many discussions that we've had in Rockford pertaining to asking ministers to rest and removing ministers from the office of speaking, there's been many comments from some stating that taking ministers down won't solve the issues going on

Taking place in God's kingdom. And I don't view either taking ministers down or moving to not archive or broadcast the sermons as an attempt to solve the issue, but rather as preserving the

Message going out from God's kingdom. We know that in each congregation, ministers are asked to serve at the will of the congregation and God speaks through them. And when they are no longer serving the congregation, then in some cases they are asked to rest. And kind of along a similar line, obviously there's been ongoing

Discussions and whatnot with Minneapolis and Wolf Lake and with the current status being not sending ministers to or inviting ministers from those congregations, it seems that still broadcasting those and archiving them just leaves the opportunity for everyday believers

To be confused by the messages in those sermons or even those on the outside of God's kingdom to not hear the word of God through the Holy Spirit via the LLC website. And that was my thoughts. Thank you. Callum Pearce. Callum Pearce.

Yes, I feel pretty small speaking to this question. We didn't discuss it in our congregation. We had a discussion at our board meeting, last board meeting, knowing that this question was going to be raised at the annual meeting, and it brought us back to our discussion of the

The main meeting and that the, what David Niemi had said in his comments that there was broad recognition there that there are two spirits and I heard all these comments and they were nice comments and the part that I heard especially was that is this an attempt to

Push Minneapolis and Wolf Lake out, or that's my paraphrasing of his comments. And I hope I didn't get the intent wrong. But I would say to Olli and all of Minneapolis and Wolf Lake as well, that the attempt hasn't been to push anyone out. And we've seen the patience of God's spirit

I would say that many in this time have personally grown tired and even needed to care for their own impatience and dryness in these matters because it's been difficult to battle during this time against the work of the enemy because it's manifested itself in

In dear brothers and sisters in faith, and we've wanted to remember in this time that we're battling the enemy of souls, that we're not battling the congregation of Minneapolis, and we're not battling congregation of Wolf Lake, but it's become painfully evident that there is a,

There's no longer an ability to hear the concern and rebuke from God's kingdom on these matters. And I think it is a broader, it's more of the broad topic at hand in Zion currently than specifically

I know that this discussion has come up several times in the last five years. And I personally have to say that it's been sometimes when I've gone to listen to archives from Wolf Lake that it's been difficult. And it's been a question that I've had that where has been

The congregation's care of its ministers there in Wolf Lake that when there has been broad concern over the ministers in Wolf Lake that why hasn't this concern been felt locally? And then also in Minneapolis that when the

When the Zion of North America has seen it good through the voice of the Holy Spirit to pause sending speakers to Minneapolis, that there's been a desire and a defiance to continue in this way. And there hasn't been that heating of the instruction to go to services

Other local congregations that you'd be welcome there that there's been an insistence to continue hosting services in Minneapolis for your own reasons. But I hope that this doesn't get misconstrued by the enemy as somehow pushing Minneapolis and Wolf Lake away.

I think you can receive it as gentle encouragement from the Holy Spirit, again, through weak brothers and sisters to come unto repentance and to take care of those matters that have pushed you onto your own island there and wanted you to separate yourselves in this kind of a way. So I hope that you can yet hear

This is a call and is encouragement to come unto repentance. But even in speaking, I feel especially my own poorness and the weakness of my words. And I want to ask you, brothers and sisters, if I can still believe my sins forgiven.

Okay, we have one from Roy Pikkarainen. And he said that Pelkie supported not archiving service from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. Roy Pikkarainen, he sent me from Pelkie and he supported not archiving the service from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. Mark Haataja.

Just wanted to join in the comments from Dave, a fellow delegate from Menahga. This was brought out from our congregation. We were instructed as delegates to bring this here, but I also wanted to share that when we spoke about this at our congregation, it was still with that prayer that these discussions would continue to happen.

But the gospel would be preached and matters would be taken care of. But it's not in this way that we bring this matter from our congregation to cut off Wolf Lake or to cut off Minneapolis, but those concerns of causing confusion, but also we see it also is in hope that in our hearts that it would be also an act of love. It is our sincere desire that

These matters would be taken care of and we would once again be of one mind and one spirit. When this was discussed, it was brought out in this way that if this action would be taken, that it would be a pause, a pause until we are of one mind, until we are of one spirit.

Thank you. Gary Lehtola? Yeah, just a couple comments here. And actually, these pretty much came out in the introduction last evening that John Bloomquist kept. But I'll just kind of reiterate them. And first, I'll refer to the bylaws.

Bylaws of the LLC, Section 9. This is part of the Constitution, so it's right at the beginning of the bylaws. It says that all members of said corporation firmly believe that the instructions and teachings of the Holy Bible are the only authority and rule for deciding all matters.

And just to further that, according to Luther, we base our theology solely on the scriptures of God and nothing else. Not tradition, not human speculation, not modern scholarship, not our experiences or feelings or anything else. And then from the Book of the Concord, this was

This was the position and practice of Luther and the Lutheran confessions, that the word of God is and should remain the sole rule and norm of all doctrine. We pledge ourselves to the prophetic and epistolic writings of the Old and New Testament as the pure and clear foundation of Israel, which is the only true norm according to which all teachers and teachings are to be judged. So when we have conversations

Like this conversation, I would just encourage people to return to scriptures and use the scriptures to make evaluations. Thank you. Is there any other discussion?

If there's not, we can go back. Chris Smith. Yeah, I was remiss earlier in bringing our loving greetings from those that are in Glendale to this annual meeting, to all the brothers and sisters, and also the great appreciation that was expressed to the LLC board and staff there.

And the work that they do and the willing hearts that they have. And it's been such a blessing for us here in Zion. We did have a joint discussion with Phoenix and Glendale where we reviewed the operating plan. And this was brought up by the members there with their concerns and they wanted

This relayed to this meeting that they were one mind and one spirit, and it was unanimous through the discussion and the psalms from the brothers and sisters there that we would pause on archiving and broadcasting those services from Wolf Lake and Minneapolis. And it was...

That it was their desire to have those thoughts or brought forward to this meeting. And I know there's a motion on the table, but if there would be the need for a motion at this meeting to make that decision. But no motion at this point, but to open up that option.

Okay, so right now there is a motion from OLLI from Minneapolis that the LLC office shall evaluate each request for sermon removal from LLC website. Doctrinal and other reasoning for removal will be documented and communicated to the speaker and made available to other members if requested.

And then we have also a second from Wolf Lake, but we would need a, from Wolf Lake, we would need a person's name. Who made that motion?

So that motion is from Matt McAuliffe. Or I'm sorry, I'm sorry, just a second. So we have a motion and a second on that one. Jim Frantti. Well, before this motion is...

Acted on, I just would like to make a point of clarification. It seems like there's this misunderstanding that the LLC office manages all of the sermon archives. And actually the sermons archives that we manage from the office are the winter and summer services, those bigger events that we sponsor.

The archives and the decisions on whether a sermon remains on the archives or not, those things are managed locally by the local congregation. The LLC doesn't begin to get into all of the local services and archives and decisions. But the question here isn't, to me, it's not a question about archiving a particular sermon.

Question about whether we should maintain on our LLC website a link to the sermon archives of Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. And that's a little different than the question of making determinations about whether a particular sermon is archived or not. So, I mean, I know there's a motion and a second to be acted on, but I'm...

A little confused by the motion because it seems to carry that understanding or message that at LLC office somehow those kind of decisions of individual sermons are being made and they are not, with the exception of winter and summer services. And then I just would say that this discussion about whether LLC archives should

We should maintain a link to the sermon archives here for Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. I think it is something that the member congregations can... It's a concern and a valid concern, and I think it's okay that this has been brought to this meeting. I don't think that the...

Congregations or delegates are acting improperly in bringing it up. And I certainly have not felt myself in any way that this is somehow an attempt to further isolate any congregation or to, as Olli said, expel a congregation. That's an altogether different decision and step. Certainly our bylaws provide means for

That sort of action. But to me, that's a pretty long step or stride to take. And I don't think that's what's in question here at all. I know that when this was discussed in our local congregation, it wasn't discussed with the thought of pushing anybody away from God's kingdom. But it was more with the thought, like we heard earlier from one of the delegates that

Is it causing confusion and troubling the membership? And if so, wouldn't it be better to pause in that archive connection to those congregations than to continue to cause questions and confusion for the simple believers like we all are? And I have also thought of it this way.

I have hope after that Monticello meeting in the beginning of May, that there would be a wake up call to all of us. And that anyone who participated in that meeting and did not feel in unity with God's Holy Spirit and the sense of the meeting, that they would pause to ask, where am I?

And that we would hear some kind of request or plea for help. That was our whole intent of that meeting. We didn't call that continent-wide meeting to push anyone out of the kingdom or to declare a heresy or to take any such actions, but in the hope that God's Spirit could speak and that loving voice of the Good Shepherd could call those who are

Confused and going astray to take care of their matters, seek help where help can be found in the midst of God's children. That was the hope and prayer. To date in the two months since that meeting, we have not, I have not been aware anyway of any plea for help. I have hoped for it and I have prayed for it. And I,

I hope and would pray that even on this discussion, and even if we were to take the step of not maintaining a link to the archives of Minneapolis and Wolf Lake on our LLC website, that it could be not seen as an attempt to isolate, but as something to be a loving reminder to ask, where am I?

Am I in the love of the believers? Am I walking in unity of spirit and faith and doctrine with the rest of God's kingdom here in North America? Or do I have matters that I have gone astray on and that I need to take care of? You know, God's kingdom is a kingdom of grace and forgiveness. And God calls, and his call is loving, but

I say to all of you, dear brothers and sisters who are listening, God's call does not last forever. God gives a time of grace. And I remember often how Luther once in one of his sermons said, where would I be, dear Lord, if you deny from me your grace?

Let's not take time of grace for granted. If the voice of the good shepherd is heard by whatever means it's heard, it's still a loving call to ask where am I and to take care of matters. And that's what I hope would come even out of this discussion. But the motion, I guess I'm just puzzled about because it seems like it's,

It's on the basis of a different, a misunderstanding about who handles archiving of sermons. So those are my thoughts, but you know, it's a troubling time. And it's important that we speak freely and openly. But I feel often, like I know many of you have felt in the face of some of what we've been dealing with,

I feel pretty small myself. And pray for God's help above all that he would keep me as a humble child in this kingdom. May I believe my sins forgiven, Jesus. I want to believe and I want to remain in unity with the flock of God's children, where the Good Shepherd always guides. Can I also hear the gospel?

Can you hear me? Yeah, I raised my hand with a trembling heart as well. And as far as this motion on the floor on WHO Archives and leaving it up to the quote-unquote LLC, I feel like we are all the LLC. And I know our local congregation, when we broadcast the service,

Or when we archive a service, we do it locally from our own congregation to the LLC website. And it's not the matter of quote unquote, the LLC. We are all the LLC. And I just hope my thoughts are clear there, but I too would also like to hear that gospel.

Oh, yeah. So Gary has a question. Is the LLC hosting the website? Yes. Can you scroll up to that motion? So we can read it.

Is there a caller from Monticello?

So this motion that's here, if it's confusing, we probably don't want it. Does it need to be clarified or is it still something that you... Yeah, or do we still vote on it?

Yeah, I guess if it's not withdrawn, there's no choice but to vote on it. Okay. The author has to withdraw. Unless the author, right, unless the author wants to withdraw that motion. But don't we all need to understand the motion? How can you vote on something who understands it? I don't know.

Olli? Yeah, good, interesting comments. Respect everyone's opinion on this. It's very good that we can openly discuss this and this itself is not so much about so much a spiritual

This is a practical proposal. It really is not a confusing motion. No matter how Jim Frantti explained it and tried to make it sound confusing, really it's not. Gary

Lehtola asked that who is hosting the LLC website or is LLC hosting a website and it was answered yes. So it makes very much sense that whoever is hosting the website, they also manage it. So this motion, I think that it's still valid.

It's up to the office, open to them, decide the details, how they exactly do it, but that they would do it. Let's see, since they are the ones who are doing the practical part of hosting this website, that they would evaluate those kind of requests for removing sermons or any

This is outside of motion, but it's a very practical thing that someone centrally manages. So, LLC office would evaluate those requests for Sherman removals. I know that Jim brought it to that they are linked and actually links and not so much about the files itself, but

It's still the same. If we don't get into technical working of website, the idea is the same. So, very practical motion still, not confusing, that LLC office would evaluate those requests for sermon removals, and then that reasoning would be documented. Well, that's

Also not confusing it's up to the office decide does they do it in a post-it note or word document or how they do it but that they would be documented and they would be communicated to the speaker. Well I'm sure that the

You speakers in the audience, that if all of a sudden your sermons are removed, you would like to know that, okay, what was wrong with my sermons?

So, and then if there are someone else who is looking for a certain sermon and knows that it was there and now it's not there, so that they would just request that, hey, what happened? What was the reasoning? You know, why is it not there? So, just to summarize this, not confusing at all. Let's not make it confusing. Let's not try to

Discredit the motion by claiming that it's confusing. Yeah, thank you for listening, even my point of view. Thank you. There's a comment also from Allen Pirness.

It's just a question directly to Olli that are you, in your motion, are you asking the LLC office to take that duty on that they don't currently have to evaluate every sermon and make the judgment on whether it should be archived or not? Is that really the essence of your motion is that they would take this additional duty on?

Thank you. Thank you, Alan, for... Oh, this is good. And as you read my motion, it's about how to handle requests for removing sermons from LLC website. That's what it is. There's nothing about reviewing each of them, but certainly they can do if there's resources for that.

But this is as very clearly in a motion it states that they shall evaluate each request for sermon removal from LLC website. Thank you, Alan, for your question. Yeah, thank you for your answer. That clarifies it that if there is a

Is there a request to evaluate a sermon or to remove it, that that's when the LLC office would take action on that? That's what I understand your motion to be now. Yes, and also just to clarify second part of that, just that we are clear that reasoning.

For removal will be documented and communicated to the speaker. And it would also be made available to other members if requested. Thank you again. Gary Lehtola. I think that's the question as of not evaluating every sermon, but

In the case where a sermon is removed, then to have some documentation and some justification, have that clearly communicated. For example, back in 2015, there was a sermon removed, and I'm not sure if that was documented, and there wasn't a process back then, so that's where the

The need for a process comes in so we don't have scenarios like that coming up. John? I just wanted to share some of my thoughts.

Regarding this proposal, this motion, maybe more from the practical logistical side, I'm just thinking, I don't know how many sermons there are a week across North American Zion, but let's just say the average 45 minutes, or let's just round it up to an hour. I don't know if there's 20, 30, 40. I don't know what the sermons would be, but as a delegate, I'm sitting here thinking about, you know, how do I consider this motion and

Um, again, from just the logistical side, there could be 20, 30, 40 hours a week of sermons, but now maybe the LLC is being asked to, to review. Um, and so that'd be pretty significant. I think, you know, something to consider. I don't think the motion necessarily was made with the intent to be confusing, but I do think there could be some confusing aspects of it. Um, it.

Traditionally, it's already been spoken to. It hasn't been the role of the LLC to be, you know, not archiving sermons or removing archive sermons. Just like traditionally, it hasn't been the role of the LLC where you could extend the thought process here. It seems like in this proposal to, or motion to, you know, would the LLC then have some role in

Working with congregations to identify who would potentially be a speaker or who maybe would no longer be speaking. And so I think it's... There are confusing aspects. I'm not certain exactly what voting for this would mean as a delegate. Clearly on just the logistical side of it, it feels like a large undertaking of work. And I think at a congregation level, I'd like to...

And I think there should be, before voting on something like this, there should be some conversation with congregations about this change, because I think it's a pretty significant change to have our central organization take on this role, which they've never had before. So just try wanting to share my thoughts. It's a little confusing to me, and I,

A little bit troubled by it, and I would just ask if I could have all my sins and doubts. Tyler? Yes, God's peace to everyone. This is Tyler Kotz in the Seattle congregation. And first off, I wanted to reiterate what was said earlier from the Seattle congregation,

Our members, I guess the information that this was potentially going to be brought up at this meeting didn't reach our congregational members until the middle of this week, and many of the members were not represented there when we reviewed the annual meeting notes. So I just want to reiterate from our congregation, obviously this is a very

Very sensitive and important topic, but they didn't feel like there was enough representation to get a full consensus from our congregation on the topic. What I would say to the motion, as I understand it, and I'd like clarification from Olli, as I understand it, he's not asking that all the sermons every week be reviewed by the LLC. He's asking that if someone

This topic I know has been out there for quite a while, but all my information on the topic is second, third, fourth hand. And so it's challenging for me to really fully understand the issues without certain pieces getting maybe lost in translation as I'm getting it second, third, fourth hand. And so as a delegate, these decisions are way heavy on me.

And I think it's important to understand where our congregation is at because I do not feel like I fully understand the four issues because all my information is second, third, fourth hand, like I said. So, you know, the way that I will be voting is on behalf of our congregation's request to not make a decision to remove archives until our congregation can meet further on it.

But I would like additional clarification from Olli just to make sure I understand it correctly, because the last gentleman that spoke there made it sound like he understood it differently than the way I understand it. K-A-U-T-C. David Niemey.

Can you hear me? Okay, so I just, my thoughts with even some of these sermons that are archived. And my question would be this, that some of those ministers that have been used for those sermons that just wondering if they are called ministers in Finland or in North America.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe some of them are not even called in Finland or they're on the speaker's registry. So to me, that would be a thing of concern with some of those sermons that are archived that, and I just, my problem with the motion, the whole motion is that, you know, again, you know, it's very clear what Olli has put as his motion. I think like he is very clear, but again, how,

We look at all the instruction that has already been given from God's kingdom to those that are battling. And it doesn't seem like there's been any need on their part for correction, perhaps. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the way it seems. And from what I understand, no asking for help or anything. So it's kind of, it's not confusing, but what it does is it just,

It's another thing where we want to go to the letter and we want to try and, you know, pick out little tiny, you know, points, you know, rather than, again, we trust in the Spirit, we're guided by the Spirit. And yeah, concordance might tell me that, you know, it's only through Scripture, but that Scripture is opened by the Holy Spirit. We all can agree with that. So if

The Holy Spirit reveals that these sermons should not be archived. I still feel that first motion should be voted on, but like I said, I don't know the processes involved with the technicalities of the meeting itself. And before I even leave, I'd like to even ask, feeling timid myself, that can I even hear that gospel for my own part? Rick Nevala?

Olli? Just to respond to Tyler. Tyler, you understood it correctly, just how it is stated. Great.

Rick Nevala from Rockford. I was thinking about these motions, these two motions. I think one was a motion maybe from Menahga. I guess, I don't know, wasn't paying that close attention, but when I think about them, I thought to myself that they both could work. I don't see how all these motion works,

Going forward without the other motion, I feel that over the last how many years we've had much documentation and many meetings that point to this question from Menahga. And based on those meetings and discussions, it feels right to pause on those archives.

And then going forward, all these motions, I guess, would make sense in my mind. Yeah, that's exactly as Dave mentioned. The Holy Spirit has led us to this place. And if we begin to just start working on details, I think we've lost the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So I believe that that's,

That's why the first comment was made, or the first question was made, that we have had many meetings and the Holy Spirit has been present at them. And as we heard already at this annual meeting, the last nationwide meeting, we agreed that there were two groups. And that implies that there's differences of understanding, differences of spirit. And when it's, when it,

When we know we feel that those groups are that way, it only makes sense, I believe, that we not archive at this time. Thank you. John Stewart. John Stewart, Seattle congregation.

I think not just particularly to Olli, but to all. I don't think we should consider this to be some kind of a technical issue of website management at the LLC office, for example. And I think it's important in that regard to realize that the

This is not a top-down organization, God's kingdom. It's a congregational decision and it's an organization that is congregational driven. It's not run by the LLC office people. It's not run by the LLC board. So it really shouldn't be a point where the organization

LLC board or the LLC office is going to analyze these sermons. This is a congregational issue. And here to me is one of the deepest problems in this. And it has to do with hearing and desiring to hear God's living word, which includes instruction, exhortation, care, love,

And guidance, not just the preached word from the pulpit. And what has been the saddest to me is that they're clearly now in this long standing series of issues. This is not a new issue. It has been a long time that God has allowed this trial. And if we consider the recent meeting in Monticello, for example,

Which I thought was the work of the Holy Spirit clearly spoke there regarding these matters. But the troubling and disturbing silence after, even though, you know, I'm going to speak directly to Olli here because I thought in your comments that there was a cry for help from that Monticello meeting.

Where has that cry for help gone? It's been a deathly silence. And the dullness to hear is this way. It's a failure to try to understand what the issues are. That's dullness of hearing. And it is a serious problem. It's so serious that it becomes one of the most pressing obstacles

To helping to resolve these, asking for God's help in these issues. And so it's not surprising to me that the congregations in North American Zion are very troubled by not only the fact that these sermons are still posted from the congregations where there's been deadly silence as far as asking for help.

So as Jim mentioned, Jim Frantti mentioned, whichever way this goes, I hope that in patience and in love and in kindness, there is an understanding and a genuine, deep request to the Heavenly Father to help in this, that we would have open ears. And especially to the dear Father

Fellow travelers in these two congregations, Minneapolis and Wolf Lake, that by God's grace, you would understand the deep seriousness, the gravity of this longstanding series of issues that continue to press. Pray that God would give you the ears to hear, the desire to understand these issues, regardless of which way this, if we vote on this motion or whatever.

That's the serious issue, at least in my view. And I know all of the congregations that I've heard from. I know the home congregation in Seattle. We have prayed for patience. We have prayed for compassion. It's been a long time. And if nothing else, it's a call, dear Minneapolis and dear Wolf Lake,

Pray that God would open your hearts to hear his word in these. And I'm talking beyond the words that come from the sermons and from the pulpit. The voice of the crying mother in the congregation that wants to care for the child, that voice, that's where I believe the issue is.

It really doesn't matter in the sense whether these things are posted or not. What really matters is there is a desire to hear the loving call of the Heavenly Father. That's the question. But I find myself weak and poor and impatient. I need to hear the gospel.

Is there any more discussion? Bryce from Alaska says, my thoughts are similar to what John shared.

So is there any other discussion?

Fully agree with John about the need to discuss. I don't know if I can go back to this. Way back when, when Menahga, Dave Keranen, when he brought this, I thought, I don't know, Dave, did you make a motion there or did you just want to have a discussion?

Okay, I was, I didn't technically make a motion at that time, but I just wanted to hear more feedback from congregations, delegates regarding this question. We were, the Menahga delegates were instructed by our membership to bring the motion to this meeting that we would pause at this time

And I guess now with clarification, the link, I guess, to the broadcast and archive from Wolf Lake and Minneapolis. And so, yeah, I guess this time I would formally bring that motion to the floor.

All right, so let's work on this. So we got this first motion from Olli that the LLC office shall evaluate each request for sermon removal from the LLC website. Doctrinal and other reasoning for removal will be documented and communicated to the speaker and made available

If other members request. And it was seconded by Matt Macklin. So I think we vote on that one.

So that's going to go to the vote. Sam Roiko. Dear brothers and sisters, I understand the motion as Olli has proposed and as the Wolf Lake Brother has seconded, that the LLC office would be given the responsibility when a request would come to evaluate a sermon

And then provide documentation. I'm hesitant to add that additional responsibility to the office staff with the amount of work that they already have, as we listened to in the operating plan. And my understanding has been that the local congregations, when they upload their sermons,

There is where the discussions are with the brother, should that sermon be archived or not. And the LLC office nor board hasn't taken that kind of action. And in fact, as Gary alluded to, the events with Darwin Lake's sermon in 2015 received accusations of heavy handedness and that,

Sort because of the concerns expressed by believers and doing that. And I guess I just wanted to share those thoughts as this motion gets acted upon and trust that you brought delegate brothers and sisters

Know the work of the office staff, and as we've heard in the operating plan, and God can lead and guide. Andrew, they do have the full wording of Olli's motion to send out to the delegates.

So it would all be there and what the delegates would receive for a vote. I mean, I think we vote for a vote. I'm going to just step in here real quick for some, I think some of our, just the LLC board members that vote for this event.

The vote for the LLC board members was unanimous.

Yeah. Well, that's right. Do we wait for the results from this vote before we vote on the second one? It takes about 10 minutes for all the votes. We can only do one at a time?

Take a 10-minute break and then we'll see if we show up in a half an hour.

The voting for the motion from Olli did not pass. So now, Steve Collier.

Dear brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, from the question that is before the meeting today, I think the concern for the hearts of man that was brought out even with that original thought of taking these sermons, for the sermons to not

Any longer be archived and broadcast on the LLC website was very much a concern of love for the undying souls of man. And even that question I feel has been obscured by the mind of man trying to rationalize what sermons or where they should be analyzed or who should analyze those sermons.

It has been discussed very beautifully by a few brothers already this afternoon. David Niemey, Allen Pirness, Jim Frantti spoke so preciously of the care and concern for the undying souls of man. Even from the time of the early May LLC-wide meeting,

When we discussed the concern for many in both Wolf Lake and Westside, Wolf Lake and Minneapolis congregations, I think Jim even mentioned how there has been no call or cry or concern for help now in two months.

The hope was that there would be a call for help, a awakening to the heart of those who have become confused and speak with a different voice or with a different spirit. Therefore, this is the real concern of why at this meeting, even as the thought of needing to

Stop archiving and broadcasting sermons from those who speak with a different voice and do not speak with the voice of the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with food from Heaven. As servants of the Word, we should not speak from our own mind or our own knowledge, but have that prayer to the Heavenly Father

That he opens through his spirit, his word, and then thus it answers to the hearts of children as morsels of food from heaven that God gives. But this, even dearer, members there in Wolf Lake and Westside, Wolf Lake and Minneapolis, excuse me,

Such prayers have risen on your behalf that you would hear the loving rebuke while it is yet day that you could take care of matters. Do not reject such a loving call from the Heavenly Father, for it is a dangerous place that man ends up in if he does not heed

Such love that the Lord Jesus calls and gathers and cares for his own. God's word contains love and truth. We must listen. Yes, many times the truth can hurt our flesh. But when we yield to that voice of the Spirit and acknowledge our

What a relief from the burden and shackle of sin. But if we defend as man our own way, you are traveling on a very dangerous road. Listen. Listen to the spirit. Listen to the voice in God's congregation. Here is the assembly.

Of his saints who have the keys of the kingdom of heaven to proclaim to ones who find that they have seen this kingdom as not so beautiful, who have began to battle against God's kingdom, have begun to battle against the voice of the Spirit. Life and hope is here in God's beautiful kingdom.

Where the proclamation of the gospel can remove sin and failing, even the greatest of which is unbelief, to give relief, to give hope, for the eyes to then be opened to see this beautiful kingdom of God's here upon earth. That is a narrow road that we as man cannot broaden or widen this way. But listen, heed the warning call.

This is really why this question stands before us today of what should be broadcast on the LLC website that is sanctioned or approved and answers to the spirit of God's children. That it helps all those who listen and hear to find comfort

On that narrow road that leads toward the homeland shore of heaven, we cannot broaden that way. But sin, our mind, which is enmity against God, would try and broaden or widen the way to heaven. But I took a turn of speech feeling many our own doubts and sins at last.

Thank you. Would there be any more discussion? So we have a motion on the floor to... No, I'll make sure I got this right. Motion on the floor to discontinue or to take out the link to Minneapolis.

Or pause, yes. Pause the link to Minneapolis, from the Minneapolis and Wolf Lake archives. I don't have a question. Is it the archive or the broadcast and the archive? He said, motion to pause at this time linking to Sturman's and Wolf Lake. He said linking to Sturman's.

Dave, do you want to clarify your motion? Sure. As I understand, the link on the LLC website is essentially access to the local congregation's website where the archives are stored, from what I understood from Jim's explanation.

I think in order to, in theory, make those archives unavailable, we'd have to pause those links or deactivate those links on the LLC website. So that's my motion, is those links would become inactive, I guess. Okay. And then we do have a second from Jared Simonson.

Say it again. Say it again, David. Is that Darren from Phoenix? Yes, that's Phoenix. Adrian?

There's just a matter of technically how these links are on the LLC website. The LLC is offered as a service to the congregations, a repository where sermons can be archived. And all those archives are then available in that repository. So it feels like

What this means is that we would remove the links to the sermons that are broadcasted or archived from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake congregations. We have a second to that motion.

Man, are you taped? You guys take me in the chat. Adrian, could you take that recording sometime into the chat?

Yeah, just would like to ask if it's okay to include the wording of the motion in a chat window. It would be so that I'm not quite sure what the motion exactly is now. So it would be nice to have it in writing in a chat window.

Yes, we're working on it right now.

Troy Fredrickson. I first forgot to bring greetings from our congregation out here in Montana. My name is Troy Fredrickson from Montana.

There's a lot of individuals that wanted to send greetings to this meeting, those that remembered that I was going to be attending this. As I'm sure most of you are well aware, we haven't received any ministers in our congregation until just recently.

And before then, we were playing archived sermons every week. And when we were listening to these archived sermons, we're listening to be fed. And when we have heard these sermons from

Wolf Lake and Minneapolis, these sermons that we're discussing here, our congregation felt like we weren't being fed. So continuing to archive these sermons and to have a direct link to the LLC website, it feels like as many people have expressed here,

There's something that causes concern for me and I know for sure other individuals in our congregation as they have discussed this. So I would definitely be in support of this motion. Also, I also wanted to

I talk about how there has been concern very, very openly and very powerfully discussed numerous times throughout the past year or even years that we have all witnessed as a meeting in May, how there is clear separation between

The congregations in Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. And there was a call that went out, as was discussed also many times throughout this meeting today, and there doesn't seem to be any humility or repentance for these

Confusions or the like. And also we have seen throughout the years that the ministers have stopped serving in Minneapolis. So to continue to broadcast the sermons from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake seems very contradictory to

What we have seen. So, this discussion really answers to my spirit of not broadcasting these sermons from Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. And then also, another thing that we have discussed here locally is that

If somehow there's an individual that hasn't been aware of the discussions and these meetings recently, and they come across a sermon and they feel like there's a contradictory spirit, I wouldn't want this individual to become confused

About the message that is coming from, from I guess the LLC for lack of better words, but I really, really fear that someone would be getting, getting the feeling that there's, there's two spirits.

That are accepted by the LLC. And for all of my fears and doubts, I'd also like to hear the gospel. Okay, so the motion is to remove links on LLC websites

Two sermons, broadcast or archived from Minneapolis or Wolf Lake. And then we have the second from Darren Simonson. That's about all we're gonna vote. What? I don't know if that hand is new or not. Olli, is your hand new?

He took it down. Sir.

I know we sent this to a vote for them. Say, Andrew? Comment? That motion in the chat box? Yes. Just to, maybe if it's just a technical thing, but if we'd replace that word remove and just maybe say pause.

If that's technically capable of doing that. And then also it says Minneapolis or Wolf Lake, it should be Minneapolis and Wolf Lake. Thank you.

Which?

Yes, can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes.

Yeah, so I haven't met many of you in person. For those that don't know me, I repented from the world about 20 years ago. And faith to me is really simple. And one of the things that helps me keep a clean conscience is if regardless of whether I think I've offended someone, someone's offended, I talk to that brother or sister.

And I opened up earlier today saying that, and I will continue to vote on behalf of our congregation's message, that they don't think it's the appropriate time until our congregation gets together to talk about such a serious matter. But this is my firsthand experience really with the topic, including people from both sides present. And part of that is my own weakness. And maybe I was avoiding some of this in my own little bubble, if you will.

And for that and everything else, I ask if I can hear that gospel. But today, sitting here today, obviously, I am very concerned. And I would have hoped that because there is a lot of offense, I think on both sides, it sounds like that regardless of whether you

You think you've offended someone or not. I think it's important to openly talk about that and continue to put matters away because our own mind sometimes doesn't even know and doesn't acknowledge sometimes that we are sinning. And even if we're pretty strong in our beliefs that we're not, I think we need to listen to the voice of the congregation at times.

Are you still there, Tyler? I'm sorry, I must have hit mute. So anyway, I think I'm done rambling. But anyway, just pray for all the LLC and Wolf Lake and Minneapolis congregations that the will of God and his word will present itself in his time. So anyway.

God's peace to everyone. Thank you. We have a little time here before the vote is in. If you guys, if anybody has any more comments that they would like to share. Yeah, Mitch Loukusa from Rockford.

So on the, I know that on the chat that motion got reposted maybe and whatnot, but saw that the link to vote that came through was the old wording. I just didn't know if that matters or if there's going to be a new one or if we should vote on the one that was sent. The title of the 15th was the word. So there still is just one vote. But on the link, the wording, the correct wording

Okay, so once you click on the link, the wording in the actual link is correct. Okay, yep, that looks good. Thank you.

Jim Ball.

Okay. So oftentimes I think I'm not going to say anything, but since it's quiet, I'd like to interject a couple of thoughts. I'm a person who's very focused on words and what words mean. And I think it's very important. What I've learned over the years is when I get hung up on words, even this here, some of this discussion is technical question of this or that.

Really what the matter comes down to is what's behind the words, what's the spirit behind the technicalities or the legalities or the, what do you want to call it, the letter of the law sort of thing. And when I have really been hung up on words, it's usually when I'm in the wrong or in dark. You know, I've become so confused with my rational thinking.

So I would say to you, dear brothers that are even raising some of these issues about this archiving or not archiving, when you examine your heart and you look at what has been said over many years here, to listen to what the voice of the Spirit says, that is God's Word. God's Word is both written and spoken. And it is what the Spirit, the voice of the Spirit reveals

And when the spirit is speaking, we have to humble ourselves and accept the instructions of the mother. And I would encourage you dear ones who are struggling in these things to hear this voice and to humble your hearts and to listen to the instructions to take care of your matters and repent. And that would be my prayer for all of us.

And I would wish to be carried in your prayers also. Will you bless me? Thank you.

Anyone else?

Okay, so the vote to remove archived sermons carries. No. Well, it doesn't seem like we have any more discussion, so now would be a time that we could adjourn the meeting. Keith Waaraniemi?

Dear delegates, both here present and online, all of you dear brothers and sisters in faith, my heart is heavy that we have had to make such a decision. I understand why the decision

Needed to be made and that there we came as if to a place of no other way to turn, for lack of a better way to say it. But what really troubles me is that

As Jim Wall just mentioned, and also Jon Stewart and others, that you brothers who have raised these questions and those who feel the same way, dear brother Olli and Gary,

It troubles me that the focus is on the action to take or not to take the sermons, not to disconnect the links or however we want to say it.

As others have mentioned already, where is the distress and the concern that has been expressed at the continent-wide meeting and here today? I have to say that as I listened to your proposals and the discussion, and you're free to make them, but

It gave me physical pain to listen to it because I've heard that, so much of that, in my former home congregation, where it seems that the simplicity of faith is lost and the words, as Jim Maul just said, exactness, the

The desire to polish things so well, but as we've discussed, may God give you and those that are in Minneapolis, those that are in Wolf Lake, this heart and mind to say and to understand that God's kingdom is concerned about me.

God's kingdom is concerned about what's happened. Even if you don't understand, open your heart to ask for help and simply become naked before God, before his congregation in the place of a sinner and ask, dear God, help me. I can't see the way.

The enemy of the soul is blinding the way. As someone already said today, we don't know how long God is calling. This is very serious. This is not just debate over a practical action. It is a spiritual matter. Even though we're talking about a technical matter, it is a spiritual matter.

That's why we're discussing it. That's why congregations have gotten so concerned about the sermons that are coming from Wolf Lake in Minneapolis, because there is spiritual concern. Today, when you hear the voice of God, harden not your hearts. I fear for you who are still there,

In my former home congregation, my heart is heavy thinking about you. I'm at peace, as I said at the board meeting the other day after our continent-wide meeting. But yet, so sad that this kind of decision has to be made.

And I pray that it would also in its own way awaken you to realize how serious the matter is. There's real danger of heresy. God only knows. This cannot continue like this. So please,

Hear the voice of the mother that's crying for you. Repent. God will help. There's love from God's kingdom and forgiveness. But the way on which you are is one that leads out of God's kingdom.

I can't see it any other way that I fear for you. May God help. May God help all of us. I'm a sinner, many faults and sins, my own life.

And then the work of the kingdom and ask if I can believe my sins. I want to believe.

Would there be any other comments before we adjourn? Alan. Allen Pirness. Yeah, it does, as Keith spoke in his comments, that it feels like an especially heavy time to adjourn a meeting with this kind of a cloud.

That really is telling to where we are in God's kingdom. It's so striking to me how we've seen such a time of work laid out before us in the operating plan. It's so clearly sanctioned by God in his spirit. We've seen the, had so much joy over the willingness of the workers to

Even do this work and the excitement even to be there even in our central organization's new office. And yet this heavy cloud hangs over Zion right now. And it gives me, as a timid person,

Worker in God's kingdom, it gives me much concern and trepidation even in the face of how I know my faith is so weak and I know that my endeavor is so faulty, but it gives me even that much more encouragement

Reassurance in this that the need, we need to put sin away today. That the enemy wants to use everything that he can to make a mess of the work of God's kingdom. He knows that his time is getting increasingly short. So that there would even be this kind of encouragement to

Each of you that don't try to do the work of God's kingdom with a defiled conscience. That if there are matters pressing that are separating you from the love of God, put them away in the blood of Jesus so that the trumpet can sound clearly in the days ahead.

The hope still remains this, that God can soften hearts unto repentance, but it seems that the encouragement and admonition to repentance is met with stony silence and outward appreciation for the concern, but there is a spiritual deafness that is there that is

So troubling. So that's my encouragement for each of us is that we would endeavor in the same old pathway, putting sin away as it besets so we can willingly do the work of God's kingdom that we have heard so preciously about today. And even yet in closing, I want

I want to be in the care of God's kingdom. I want to make it to the shores of heaven one day. Can I still believe my sins forgiven? Anybody else? Carey Simonson. Carey?

Good afternoon, dear brothers and sisters. God's peace. I assume you're able to hear me there. Yes. So as we have come to this decision that the congregations have made, it feels to me that I would have a request for the

Delegates to bring back from the meeting that we've heard, and I would just express it in my words, although I'm not a delegate, I do serve on the LLC board, and I'm Carey Simonson from Saskatoon. As I think over the last number of years and the meetings,

And the calls that have come out and the rebuke and the instruction, those advice, those rebukes, those encouragements have always been to individuals. Where am I? Where do I sit? How are matters with myself?

And am I personally in agreement with the Holy Spirit that speaks in God's kingdom? And now today we have spoke about a matter that the decision of the handling of speakers and the calling of them, which includes the daily or continual calling,

Which has traditionally and how we would believe be held and dealt with in the local congregation. And yet this meeting today has taken an action that has given not only rebuke to individuals, but rebuke to entire congregations.

The sister congregations have seen that the care of the ministers in Wolf Lake, I guess we can say specifically, and the calling of ministers by Minneapolis has caused concern. And now this meeting has brought open rebuke to those congregations. And

Dear delegates from those congregations, even if you cannot see yourself, and even if you can, and I'm sure you can find reasons in God's word, even in his word, that you can justify in your mind and prove to yourself that why this was a wrong decision.

I would encourage you to bring it there to your home congregations, to bring this decision that has been made in love and care and guided by the Holy Spirit through the dear sister congregations around Zion. It has not been made easy. It has not been made in a light way.

But it is, I would say, the first step of open rebuke that has now come from the dear congregations around North America to your congregations. It has been brought openly and it has been brought forward here in this meeting. And I pray that you would bring this message and I pray that that message could be heard in your congregations. This is serious.

As we have heard, and may God still call, may he still open hearts wherever they may be to recognize us. And of course, even as I speak these, I find myself so small and so lacking that does the gospel still belong to me? Can I believe my sins and doubts forgiven?

I want to believe and continue to pray with all of Zion that God's will would continue to go forth and that sinners would be called to repentance. Thank you.

Yeah, this is quite untypical for me to speak this often in large meeting like this. But I think, well,

So I just would like to clarify that the intention of my motion, it was not to cause spiritual concerns or offend anyone. Intention was to propose a way to handle this kind of request to remove sermons from LLC website.

But still, being weak, being not skillful always in my wordings and understanding that my thoughts are not always, they do not always come across as intended. It sounds that motion,

And maybe my other comments explaining the motion offended some and caused spiritual concerns that I did not intend. I would like to ask that can I believe this forgiven? I also

I want to believe it with all of you and continue believing with all of you. I also would like to, here in the end of the meeting, sounds like we are, to have a few words about the discussion regarding Minneapolis. Please don't take this as a defend, trying to defend.

Or trying to point fingers. These are just some thoughts that I would like to express. Minneapolis has tried to communicate their side of story. Three letters were sent to inform that Minneapolis desires to travel with the rest of the believers.

And do not want to be isolated from American Zion. Minneapolis tried to correct some inaccuracies and rumors that had been spread widely and accepted by many. We also tried to explain how do we believe and what is the foundation of our faith and teaching in Minneapolis.

But we cannot, we cannot force anyone to accept our message or even listen to us. Still, Minneapolis desires to stay traveling with all believers, does not want to be isolated or separated. And our foundation of teaching

And our faith, it has not changed. We also ask that you would be open for constructive dialogue where nobody comes as being right and demanding a correction from others, but where we can freely

Really discuss how do we understand these matters. It is true that Minneapolis has not had a strength to reach out for a specific help since the last big meeting in Monticello. Please do not think

This is a sign of rejecting help. Many of us are tired for big meetings. We tried to have a smaller meeting with Seattle's help, but got very discouraged when that did not go forward.

It was said earlier that this is not a top-down organization. And I think that is good. So any congregation, any of you in audience, you can reach out to Minneapolis and offer help. The help does not have to come from a central organization. Any of you can reach out.

Helping hand to that who is suffering. Believers in Minneapolis are as sinful as in any other congregation. We are not any better, not more enlightened,

No wiser than any of you. We are failing. We are stumbling, just as you are. We are endeavouring. We are putting sin away and simply believing that we are saved alone by faith.

Alone by grace and alone by Christ's redemption work. And we believe that His grace is sufficient and belongs also to us. We fear. We don't fear any of you, dear brothers and sisters.

We fear the enemy. We fear that the enemy wins hearts and causes division. We fear that our trust in God, our fear lovingly far, will wear thin and doubt overtakes us. We fear

Just like people of Israel feared at the shore of the Red Sea, enemy is close. Enemy is to destroy us. God, God help us.

May God show his power and open the sea so that even the weakest one would be saved from the enemy and we could continue traveling together rejoicing that God has not forgotten us.

May we all have love towards our brothers and sisters so that we desire to carry and help each other until faith changes to seeing. O merciful God, we pray, help your children. Can I still believe my sins forgiven?

Is there anybody else?

We heard this is Pete Lever. As you know, I serve on the LLC board also.

Yeah, as maybe you know, I'm Pete Lever. I served on the LLC board for some time. And I know that uncountable prayers have arisen to heaven from everybody attending this meeting here and online and from around the entire Zion and many also from Finland and Sweden.

But this, I won't take long, but these few verses came to my mind just a few moments ago from the book of Hebrews, chapter 12. Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence. Shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the father of spirits and live?

For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure, but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous. Nevertheless, afterward, it yieldeth the peaceable fruit

This is our prayer for the result of this meeting to those who have openly and clearly taken a different path from God's children in North America and we can say from around the world

Because we know there's one kingdom, one faith, as we have heard, and one spirit. He says, wherefore lift up the hands which hang down in the feeble knees, and make straight your paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed. Isn't that

Your prayer, not only for yourself, but for each other and for our travel friends and our escorts. I want to, again, assure each one of you here, each one of you listening, God led this meeting. The Holy Spirit was here. It spoke.

Believe even now every last sin and doubt forgiven, in Jesus' name and precious blood. I also desperately need to hear that gospel. Can I believe all of my sins, worries, doubts, and fears forgiven?

Anybody else? If not, I will take a motion to adjourn.

So if anybody has a motion to adjourn. John Luckey. John Luckey makes a motion to adjourn. Daryl Johnson. He made a motion to adjourn. He said he'll second it.

And I think we don't need to do a vote. I think we can even just show hands in here. I don't know if we need to show hands everywhere, but a show of hands. All right. [Steve Haataja] will keep the closing.

Let us unite in closing prayer.

Dear Heavenly Father, in spite of the fact that we close this meeting not with complete joy, as we so oftentimes do, yet we thank you, dear Father, for your presence through your Spirit. We know that these things happen in your time,

And we pray that even the actions that have been taken through the guidance of your Holy Spirit here at this meeting would cause to awaken those who have been battling to the seriousness of

The situation that we have been experiencing for some time. And they would, as we have heard through speeches today, give cause to each one of us and them to ask that, where am I? That we each one could remain in this unity that is only possible when we

Our living and dwelling here in your kingdom, yet being led by your Holy Spirit, that we all could remain with that hope that no one would be lost along the way, and that the work of your kingdom could continue with joy, all working together

For the benefit of all your children, I'm continuing to call yet those who travel on the outside of this kingdom of grace while it is yet day, for we know night soon cometh, and the door to your kingdom will be once again closed when the end comes. Dear Father, while it is yet a day of grace,

We pray that those who are being exhorted onto repentance would not harden their heart, but they would desire to ask that what must I do to be saved? Dear Father, we marvel at all of the work that you allow to be done in your kingdom in spite of the

Difficulties that we face. And we pray at the end that Lord bless us and keep us. The Lord make his face shine upon us and be gracious unto us. The Lord lift up his countenance upon us and give us peace. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Okay, we'll close our annual meeting by singing song number 331. And then following this song, we ask that those scheduled to attend the board meeting would remain. If you need a five minute break, we'll give you five minutes and then we will reassemble here for our board reorganizational meeting.

Can I just report that I just got a message from Finland asking what's going on with the believers. I just heard that the LLC had a separated Minneapolis congregation and some of them. There's not to say that a little louder than here. Oh, I got a message from Finland. I'm just saying that word travels fast. It says, what is going on there amongst the believers? I heard that the LLC had

Separated, or I guess it could be a Minneapolis congregation and some other congregation. Pause. It's a pause. Yeah, I told you it's a pause. It wasn't the LLC, it was the voice of the congregation. We didn't expel the congregation.